To those who disliked Enterprise...

[JALU3]

Bottom line: The numbers don’t lie, the rating are still down (waaaaaaaaaaaay down, when one considers what the first episode had for figures), so Paramount do us a favor: Don’t listen to anymore pro-E ‘protests’/‘letter writing campaigns’/or any other gimmicks. Stop throwing good-money-for-bad, and above all else…MAKE THE HURTING STOP…

I have to agree with this statement . . . maybe Star Trek needs to take a break for 5-7 years . . . maybe have a DS9 movie or two . . . and then make a fresh start on the matter.

[JALU3]

Well, if Gene Roddenberry was alive, if he stamped anything "apocryphal" then I considered it written out the of the lore (e.g., Star Trek V: The Final Frontier).

But as with VOYAGER storyline, I have to accept them for what they are -- even if I still retch when they are mentioned -- and move on. I don't emphasize nor keep reminding them of the discrepancies, just footnote it.

To bad that Paramount never created a group within Star Trek . . . that reviews stories for canon matters . . . that's one thing that as I understand Star Wars has.

[JALU3]

Last time I checked Paramount (just like Wizards of the Coast) do not send the Canon Inquisition around to check everyones games are running to their standard. (Just 1 in every 100 I think ).

So sit back, dont worry and just enjoy. If you want to keep canon, thats fine, but if you dont like something, theres no need to loose sleep over it! Just ignore it and move on.

What you say is true . . . and thank God that they don't. However, to roleplay in a world . . . you have to have a starting Canon to start with . . . a history and a background that you can draw upon and which you game starts. Once you start your game of course, your groups actions become a universe within itself . . . but in no way effected by the future actions depicted on TV due to that effect.

But then again . . . this arguement can be taken to defend the actions of ENT as well.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

I'd have to watch the two TNG episodes again but I am pretty sure it is implied that contact with the Ferengi had only really been made in the last few years at the time of season 1.

Furthermore, one might presume that given the Stargazer incident that the Ferengi made a habit of destroying or capturing others and therefore previous such "first contacts" were never known about.

I personally have an issue with the Federation knowing about all these species long before other established contacts.

Regards,
CKV.

[TFVanguard]

Please cite episode.

Gah, forget the name, but it's the first episode with the Ferengi. The Feds didn't know about the ship, the race, etc, but knew some 'inferred records' that they were a sort of 'yankee traders'. Scary nasty uber-capitalists (this is Rodenberry who made them up, remember.)

You can assume that Picard's encounter on the Stargazer wasn't face-to-face (and, indeed, you wouldn't think so, but the Ferengi know an awful lot for it not to be the case)... but it then comes to strange odds in how the Ferengi behave in DS9.

I tend to look at the Ferengi as a 'reaching' power, nowhere near the strength of the Feds, Klingons, etc, through the series. More like.. the Dutch, maybe? Wealthy, good with what they have, but not a dominant player. Still doesn't rectify ENT, DS9 and TNG, but it does explain their more limited influence for the TOS era...

[Tobian]

There are several reasons that the Ferengi may not have been recognised, not least of which is they bought their warp drive capability off someone else.. The D'kora is the most popular model they have right now, but that doesn't mean to say there aren't other ships operating out there that have been bought from other sources.. While the ships may even have a vague similarity of design, they may be using imported parts, including the warp drives themselves, which would make identifying such vessels at range a problem, because a warp core signature is one of the key things to be identified over extreme range.. It may be that the Federation has interacted with them unknowingly for many years, while they use all sorts of rag tag ships, and trade through agents. The DS9 Ferengi's don't really seem too consistent with the one's seen in TNG, which is problematic. Personally I prefer the DS9 Ferengi, mostly because they were better thought out and tremendously entertaining

[JALU3]

Well . . . are well thought ideas . . . and I like the use of the Dutch as an example.

But one reason to explain why the ferengi have changed maybe due to internal politics. Maybe there was a change in Grand Nagus . . . or another economic faction was in control during earlier times . . . or they were limited by technology. All of these are rather plausable.

If you look at Star Chart . . . or any other map . . . you will see that Ferengi aren't a steller power. And there's a good reason for it. Look at Japan. Although the amount of territory they cover is small in comparison to nations of like economic power . . . their current strength lies in their ability to seem small and to be a conduit for trade and processing raw materials into manufactured materials. Thus they ferengis may not see territorial dominance as important to their ability to conduct profitable, and seemingly friendly, commerce.

Furthmore by mantaining a low profile . . . it allows them to asses the economic situation without endangering themselves.

Think of it from there prospective. You find out one day that there are several large political entities in an area where you have previously no contact. You here that there alot of people in that area, thus a HUGE potential market(s). However, you also here that this region is very volital. Now you don't have the technology to reach that area . . . but you already have a strong base market around your region of space . . . and there are a couple trade partners who are beginning to dable in a more efficient form of travel . . .

Does that sounds plausable?

[REG]

Bottom line: The numbers don’t lie, the rating are still down (waaaaaaaaaaaay down, when one considers what the first episode had for figures), so Paramount do us a favor: Don’t listen to anymore pro-E ‘protests’/‘letter writing campaigns’/or any other gimmicks. Stop throwing good-money-for-bad, and above all else…MAKE THE HURTING STOP…

You know how I feel about the antiquated and obsolete Nielsen rating. Do you really think I should place my faith on one Nielsen viewer to represent not just my vote but the vote of 99,999 other viewers? I didn't even get to vote for that Nielsen viewer "drone" to represent me. Unlike my own congressman, I couldn't even tell nor influence my Nielsen "drone" how I feel about a particular show so he can represent my vote.

Nielsen rating should go the way of the dodo and Intellivision.

[Tobian]

before they judge how popular it is they should probably take in the rest of the world, before they get so harsh! I wonder how these figures stack up with European ratings (and others) and if the people at Fox had half a brain they might think to cross release it sooner overseas, and boost their ratings BEFORE they cancel the shows!

[REG]

What does FOX have to do with ENTERPRISE?

[Tobian]

Sorry, we were talking about evil networks, my bad - I'm not american, therefore I have little clue about who owns what these days.. other than Time-Warner, who own almost everything

[TFVanguard]

But one reason to explain why the ferengi have changed maybe due to internal politics. Maybe there was a change in Grand Nagus . . . or another economic faction was in control during earlier times . . . or they were limited by technology. All of these are rather plausable.

The trouble, really, is just that they're introduced in Enterprise and established that they're within old-style 'warp five' reach from Earth. That's a lot of years to deal with before Pike/Kirk, much less before Picard.

I'm not saying that the Ferengi need to be a major player like, say, the Romulans or Tholians, just that the idea of Picard having first contact just doesn't jive. Honestly, if you assume that Picard is seeing the first Marauder ship, and not Ferengi itself, a lot of the problems go away.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

If they also spent a bit more time making sure the scripts maintained continuity, more then a few problems would go away.

Regards,
CKV.

[REG]

Sorry, we were talking about evil networks, my bad - I'm not american, therefore I have little clue about who owns what these days.. other than Time-Warner, who own almost everything

Well, in America, UPN* initially didn't want to air ENTERPRISE this season. Paramount took a big gamble by offering a reduced price per episode, over 50% off. That means whatever budget they had to work in the last season per episode, just cut in half. UPN reconsidered but they moved their timeslot to Friday.

*When United Paramount Network went on the air for the first time, VOYAGER was its "flagship" Trek series.

As for FOX inside the US, that network had its own shares of bad rep.

One more thing, try to distinguish whether it was the major network or the local affiliate in your area is causing you problem.

[Silverstreak]

The show sucked hard in season 1 and it still sucks hard, they have way too many continuity errors and the cast just stinks (aside from Bakula).