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Thread: Star Trek d20

  1. #31
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    Angry

    I think the biggest problem with people who argue against d20 is that they think of D&D and fantasy-specific elements rather than the game mechanic. The mechanic is: roll d20, add bonuses based on ability score and skill rank, compare to minimum success level (DC). Hit points are an abstraction for luck and toughness, and one can replace that component with a grittier system (although I've heard a lot of arguments that hit points are appropriate for Trek). d20 is no better or worse than a pool of d6.

    Another major problem with people who don't even look at the system and try to argue against it is that they (illogically) try to tie level to rank. LEVEL <> RANK! A lieutenant going on away missions could have lots of talent in some area (suggesting high level and skill focus) while a captain could have knowledge of a wide range of things (suggesting nothing about level, just that he spread his skill points across many fields). Think of the captain as a manager. I work for a person who is a starting rank in my company, but he's older and pretty good at discipline and motivation of workers. His "rank" is minimal (equiv to LT) but he's one of the best managers and technical contributors in our group. In contrast, the top of the food chain here is a higher "rank" than his manager, according to the title and grade scale of the company, and he definitely has more skill (even managerial) in the fields the two of them are in than his manager. That guy is equiv to a Commodore while his boss is just a Captain. I'm just trying to show that greater skill (and thus level) does not mean greater rank and that higher up the command chain does not mean higher rank or skill.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with a captain with only 3 levels in d20, or a lieutenant with 13 levels, or said LT reporting to said CPT. A character in ICON/CODA can gain a lot of skills and edges but not be a captain if he hasn't bought "promotion" edges. So d20 is no different from ICON/CODA. But instead of getting a skill point at a time, you get them in surges (say 6 or 8 skill points at a time) and call it a level. Silverstreak said, "D20 is level based, ICON and Coda are skill based." That's a horrible misunderstanding of the purpose and terms of level and skill. Skills are not a comparative factor to levels, they can be compared with classes. d20 is class-based, but if you only have one class, it becomes skill based.

  2. #32
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    I do agree that level of experience should not automatically reward rank, but level of experience should be a factor when it comes to making a promotion check. A promotion check system would be similar to the one in Blood and Guts: Modern Military sourcebook.

    As for hit points, thanks to d20 and Open Gaming License, there are other alternative health systems, such as:
    1. Vitality Point/Wound Point system (now Open Game Content in the Unearthed Arcana book),
    2. the Damage Saving Throw system (found in Mutants & Masterminds; dubbed the "Injury System" in Unearthed Arcana book),
    3. d20 Modern hit points system (enforcing massive damage threshold at lower than 50),
    4. Stamina/Lifeblood system (found in T20: Traveller)
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  3. #33
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    Question

    Sorry but I have a very weak grapevine on my end so I don't know if it is true or not, but... Is there going to be a d20 version of Prime Directive RPG?
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  4. #34
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    Who cares, I still don't want to buy Prime Directive

    Well I will take a look at it, but I am pretty much dead to D20 so it may be the first new game for Trek that I don't buy.. not that it's likelly to be made. I'd be interested to see if yo could pull that off Reg.. As they say there's nothing like doing it yourself.. Give it a go.. I'll even offer constructive criticism
    Ta Muchly

  5. #35
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    Here is the answer on Prime Directive d20 --
    Quote Originally Posted by starfleetgames.com FAQ
    Will you ever do a D20 based RPG?

    Perhaps, but we have to deal with outside contractors (we don't know the D20 system and cannot do it ourselves) and for whatever reason those who have offered to do this for us never have delivered it.
    Last edited by spshu; 02-03-2005 at 01:02 AM.
    Member, TrekRPGnet Development Team | OD&D Guild - The Guild for Original (Classic) D&D | FlintGamers |Free Web Hosting

  6. #36
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    Who cares, I still don't want to buy Prime Directive
    I wouldn't either. I think my days of Star Fleet Battles and its spawn universe are way behind me. Though I can't help but chuckle if they might use the SFB impulse rule for personal combat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    Well I will take a look at it, but I am pretty much dead to D20 so it may be the first new game for Trek that I don't buy.. not that it's likelly to be made. I'd be interested to see if yo could pull that off Reg.. As they say there's nothing like doing it yourself.. Give it a go.. I'll even offer constructive criticism
    Heh. I have an irrational fear of criticism.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  7. #37
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    I'll have to track 'em down but once upon a time I converted all the Star Trek ship classes to the starship rules in d20 Star Wars. They should be online somewhere.

    EDIT: Ah. Here we go.

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/startr...m/messages/111

    You'll have to cycle forward one page to get a few more.
    Last edited by Mac417; 02-03-2005 at 08:01 AM.
    chris "mac" mccarver
    world's angriest creative mind

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by REG
    Heh. I have an irrational fear of criticism.
    I can be nice when I want to be - besides it's not irrational

    I guess I'm just sick of hearing about how good it would be to have D20 startrek, but with a few exceptions, I have yet to actually see this product. I suspect largelly because it would be very hard to please both camps.
    Ta Muchly

  9. #39
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    I guess I'm just sick of hearing about how good it would be to have D20 startrek,
    Well, I never hear you being sick of hearing how good Trek would be in other game systems, even Palladium's Megaversal System, so I have to ask why are you singling out d20?
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  10. #40
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    err 'cause the reverse is true.. I never hear you, or anyone else, banging on about how good Startrek would be in *insert obscure system here*.. simple!
    Ta Muchly

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    I can be nice when I want to be - besides it's not irrational

    I guess I'm just sick of hearing about how good it would be to have D20 startrek, but with a few exceptions, I have yet to actually see this product. I suspect largelly because it would be very hard to please both camps.
    Well, I know that in one case, d20 Trek was heavily discussed on the Wizards of the Coast forums (to the point that a number of people posted their rulesets and so forth)... discussion that was brought to a halt by the suits at Paramount basically sending the Wizards webstaff a C&D which led to a removal of all the forum threads relating...
    chris "mac" mccarver
    world's angriest creative mind

  12. #42
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    err 'cause the reverse is true.. I never hear you, or anyone else, banging on about how good Startrek would be in *insert obscure system here*.. simple!
    So, if I was "banging on" about how good Trek would be under the GURPS system, you would disagree?

    I doubt it.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  13. #43
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    Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

    It's a shame that Paramount are so persnickerty about things like that.. they can hardly lose money from it, and they are more likelly to lose more for being such asses! Ahh well, that's big money business!

    And Reg.. Try it. I have no specific objections to GURPS because I don't have a rules set, or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about it. i have specific reasons for disliking the concept of D20 Startrek.. those pertain to my dislike of D20 NOT my universal hatred of all other systems in known existence...
    Ta Muchly

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

    It's a shame that Paramount are so persnickerty about things like that.. they can hardly lose money from it, and they are more likelly to lose more for being such asses! Ahh well, that's big money business!

    And Reg.. Try it. I have no specific objections to GURPS because I don't have a rules set, or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about it. i have specific reasons for disliking the concept of D20 Startrek.. those pertain to my dislike of D20 NOT my universal hatred of all other systems in known existence...

    Funny how some people can't grasp that isn't it?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    Hmm well it hasn't happened yet here

    It's a shame that Paramount are so persnickerty about things like that.. they can hardly lose money from it, and they are more likelly to lose more for being such asses! Ahh well, that's big money business!

    And Reg.. Try it. I have no specific objections to GURPS because I don't have a rules set, or an understanding of how it works, so I am far more likelly to be objective about it. i have specific reasons for disliking the concept of D20 Startrek.. those pertain to my dislike of D20 NOT my universal hatred of all other systems in known existence...
    "My hate fo d02 know no bounds."--quote on a message board somewhere.

    I like D&D3/x, Mutant's and Masterminds is pretty cool. Don't have any other d20/OGL things.

    Actually, Trek's pretty fun under the Hero system. And somebody's done a lot of the work for you.

    http://www.starherofandom.com/h_trekhero/index.php

    Alex

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