Graphics

[Feanorgil]

Yes that would be great. I probabbly should get around to talking to them.

[Publius]

Actually I am a publisher of a new regional magazine here in Southeastern Michigan. Incororated (as Indalo Publishing) and everything.

The Publisher of Flint Metro Magazine quit three days before the deadline and I had to work around the clock to put that issue out. The first one I did myself was a little bit rough IMHO, but actually pretty well recieved.

The week before she quit I had purchased Adobe Creative Suite at Educator prices ($500 or $600-ish, waaaay lower than the SRP) because there were rumblings that I might have to take over in the next month, but I was not prepared for the job immediately. Yes, InDesign does have a learning curve, but if you are familiar with other Adobe products, it is actually quite reasonable (actually I agree with Tobian in that it is very reasonable to get something out on a functional level, but there are little tricks that remain elusive. I still cuss at it a lot). What bugs me are the little differences between InDesign and Illustrator. Now, keep in mind that I have a real button-monkey attitude towards this sort of thing, and I have used Desktop Publishers before, I am also very conversant with Illustrator (from a button monkey angle), but I did not have any experience in the publishing field specifically. No graphics arts training, nada. I do deck plans and other stuff, but that is about it. I had written a few stories for the magazine previously, okay MOST of the stories in the magazine previously, but I was completely green for layouts. I made the deadline, three days of pure hell I am still trying to not think about.

I have subsequently published another issue (as an entirely new Magazine to go with the new corporation: it is now "Metro Express" Magazine) that covers three counties in SE Michigan and has a slightly different focus. I have a lot of money outstanding from advertisers which may spell the downfall of the magazine as a business, but the Magazine itself (i.e. the paper and ink product) has gotten excellent reviews from all I have shown it to, including professionals at the Marketting Department of my University (who produce their own magazine). In the middle of the month of December, I was planning on putting the Nov-Dec Metro Express online; when I do that I will post a link. The pictures and that will be lower resolution of course...

The book I learned the absolute most from btw was Editing by Design, Jan White (ISBN 1-58115-302-3). If you want to pick up something about layouts, that is the single best source I found. It has all kinds of hand illustrations (they are a little bit crude in a cartoony way, but they don't need to be much more than they are to get his pints across). I cannot say I follow all of White's advice, but I did follow most of it and I really benefitted from picking this one up.

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Publius
The book I learned the absolute most from btw was Editing by Design, Jan White (ISBN 1-58115-302-3). If you want to pick up something about layouts, that is the single best source I found. It has all kinds of hand illustrations (they are a little bit crude in a cartoony way, but they don't need to be much more than they are to get his pints across). I cannot say I follow all of White's advice, but I did follow most of it and I really benefitted from picking this one up. [/B]

Yes. This book is magazine specific and would really help out a netbooker who wants to cut to the chase. (Net"books" are really 'zines, anyway.) Realize that this book is written with trained professionals (editors, art directors, and designers) already in mind and will not teach you art & design basics; (Layout basics, probably, but that's only one part of the equation.)

Keep in mind that layouts, by themselves, are copyrightable; So don't just rip-off a layout unless the publication you are using says you can. (Small game companies may look the other way, but designers and design firms won't.)

If you're more interested in "cookie-cutter" layouts that get your content presented quickly, try "The Graphic Design Cookbook," a compliation of layouts for various purposes. ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...297404-8645664 )

[Tobian]

I often think about trying to tackle a graphic design course to help me with stuff like that, as sometimes being able to ask a human person is the easiest method to solving any problem

I find that usually the hardest thing about using new, improved or different software is knowing how to do what you want... As in often you are familiar with doing the same thing in other software.. but you have to figure out how you do it in this software.. and where the menu location is hidden! I remember I was looking for the 'runaround' menu in In-design the other night and I was on 10 minutes in the help (got a little screen blind ).. Of course having a clue what you mean when you want to do something is half the battle, and knowing the trillion acronyms buzzwords, what all of those file formats are for and all of the wrinkles between one piece of software and another are help you far more than reading the manual, because all that does is tell you the down pat stuff: what to do when the computer IS working right!

I agree about In design - the layers menu is a little limited and I wish it had a proper properties menu (so you could adjust drop shadows etc) but then there is a fine line between just making it Illustrator and they don't want to overcomplicate a relativelly simple product! The other thing which annoys me about Illustrator is all of the functionality they added with transparency.. which is briliant.. except post script doesn't really support it - so I can spend more time converting my image than I did making it

I'd love to see a copy of your work Publis, and i wouldn't mind seeing some of yours either Ezri

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Tobian
. . . find that usually the hardest thing about using new, improved or different software is knowing how to do what you want...

The computer world mania to upgrade everything is nothing more than an unchecked frenzy of consumerism driven by marketing departments. New is not always better. (Just ask those folks who upgraded from Photoshop 4 to Photoshop 5)

Currently, Freehand is in version 11; One of my former instructors (and head instructor for the Graphic Design dept) still uses FreeHand 7 on OS 8.x / 9.

Why ? Because he's mastered the tools in Freehand 7 and can get it to do exactly what he wants with it; Plus, he can output to whatever is needed to go to press. Upgrading software means re-learning what you already know how to do and that takes away from productivity.

His philosophy was simple: If you have the tools you need, you've mastered them, and they work adequately, then there's no real reason to upgrade despite all the bells and whistles.

[Tobian]

Generally speaking this is true, but then it is not always.. it always depends on what gadgets you prize.. On the one hand you have the office suite.. I can't ever really see many improvements, other than actually making this work that were horrendously unworkable before, but most 'creative software' often adds hugelly to the functionality of the product, While it's true that many of the upgrades are rather TOO incremental, there are so many improvements.. Certainly going from Illustrator 7 - 11 is a vast difference, I can't speak for Freehand

One thing that Adobe does is leave well enough alone.. sometimes you think nothing has changed, because the interface has changed little.. but then you find a doohickey here and a whotsit there, and suddenly you realise how much an improvement it has been... Things like an instance library in Illustrator, tabbed side menu's in In-Design and the patch removal tool in photoshop make your jaw drop when you first use them - it's the "this would have taken me 4-5 times as long the old way" features which do creep in, which bend this tradition.

3D software is very feature happy but then this is due to the ever increasing clock speeds of computers - which allows functions which were rediculously slow on machines only a year before, such as radiosity, occlusion culling passes, HDRI and sub pixel displacement.. these are not "ooh lets see what we can cram to make people want to buy it" features, they are what people wanted all allong, but their CPU's would melt if they had tried them

Ok so none of these features makes you into a designer, they do not improve your drawing skills or suddenly give you a critical eye for design, but they can help a tremendous ammount in allowing you to do something in a non prohibitive timeframe.. Sure your lecturer might be happy with Freehand 7.. but would he suddenly take a step back to Freehand 5? No, because this changed, you can't do that handy thing, this doesn't work as well, this is sub par, that is really ugly and I can't do this thingy at all... but none of those things help him to be a designer.. so why does he need them?

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Tobian
Generally speaking this is true, but then it is not always.. it always depends on what gadgets you prize.. On the one hand you have the office suite.. I can't ever really see many improvements, other than actually making this work that were horrendously unworkable before, but most 'creative software' often adds hugelly to the functionality of the product, While it's true that many of the upgrades are rather TOO incremental, there are so many improvements.. Certainly going from Illustrator 7 - 11 is a vast difference, I can't speak for Freehand

One thing that Adobe does is leave well enough alone.. sometimes you think nothing has changed, because the interface has changed little.. but then you find a doohickey here and a whotsit there, and suddenly you realise how much an improvement it has been... Things like an instance library in Illustrator, tabbed side menu's in In-Design and the patch removal tool in photoshop make your jaw drop when you first use them - it's the "this would have taken me 4-5 times as long the old way" features which do creep in, which bend this tradition.

3D software is very feature happy but then this is due to the ever increasing clock speeds of computers - which allows functions which were rediculously slow on machines only a year before, such as radiosity, occlusion culling passes, HDRI and sub pixel displacement.. these are not "ooh lets see what we can cram to make people want to buy it" features, they are what people wanted all allong, but their CPU's would melt if they had tried them

Ok so none of these features makes you into a designer, they do not improve your drawing skills or suddenly give you a critical eye for design, but they can help a tremendous ammount in allowing you to do something in a non prohibitive timeframe.. Sure your lecturer might be happy with Freehand 7.. but would he suddenly take a step back to Freehand 5? No, because this changed, you can't do that handy thing, this doesn't work as well, this is sub par, that is really ugly and I can't do this thingy at all... but none of those things help him to be a designer.. so why does he need them?

If you own a hammer, have been trained in how to use a hammer, and have mastered the use of a hammer, do you really need a gold-plated hammer with cup-holder and ice machine if you have to lose work to re-learn how to use it ?

[Tobian]

But then what happens when you need to pull a nail out.. here comes hammer mark 2 with a nail remover

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Tobian
But then what happens when you need to pull a nail out.. here comes hammer mark 2 with a nail remover

Yes, but if you're already a master at using Hammer Mark I, you can remove a nail without the new equipment. It's the user first. Not the tools.

[Tobian]

Sorry I refer to a claw hammer, which is a combination of a hammer and a claw, to remove nails..

yes sometimes a spade is still a spade.. but why excavate a buildings basement with a shovel.. when you can use an earth mover, yes I agree a tools basic purpose does not change.. but sometimes someone comes up with a tool that you can do something you couldn't do before with that tool, without excessive effort, if at all!

[Feanorgil]

Can some one send me the LOTR RPG Fonts and The LOTR RPG Unoffical logo?
Please!

[Feanorgil]

Hello fellow ringers ... well I have come home on leave from Afghanistan ( brought a few goods home : malaria... Bad, ibook G4 good!!!! I have just bought the Adobe Creative Suite 2... and I am ready to begin fleshing out some of my ambitions for my LOTR Saga... also I plan to use it for my medical presentations ( ie that was my justification for purchasing it to my fiancee. Also if Tomcat or any one else has the time to occasionally give me pointers I would be much appreciative.

Feanorgil

[Tomcat]

Hey Feanorgil,

I am just a hack at this stuff - learn by doing - but I am certainly happy to answer any questions you might have as you progress in your project.

Tomcat

[Feanorgil]

Well I will send you a long list of questions in the next day or so. By the way keep up the awesome work with Hall of Fire!!!!!!!!
Feanorgil

[Ineti]

Can some one send me the LOTR RPG Fonts and The LOTR RPG Unoffical logo?
Please!

I made up the unofficial logo for the heck of it when I was working on unofficial products a few years ago. I whipped it up in Photoshop, I think. Really down and dirty. Nothing fancy.

As for the page borders, that was done in Photoshop as well using a ton of trial and error. Looks okay, I guess.

Now that I'm working with Kieran at Decipher to populate the new website, I don't have to use my homemade stuff--he does the layout with the 'official' look and feel.

As for the fonts, they're commercially available on Adobe.com. Galahad, Albertus, and Adobe Jenson are the ones IIRC Decipher uses for the most part. I think you can find similar fonts with different names for cheaper or for free online. Just gotta dig around.

For what it's worth, I use PCs all the way. The only Apple I have is my iPod.