Quitting the federation ?

[Pantoufle]

I was thinking about writing an adventure about a species/planet quitting the federation.

Anyone knows if that ever happened before ?

[First of Two]

In the book "Spock's World," a faction of Vulcans tried to get Vulcan to secede from the Federation.

My opinion?

"Yeah, seceding from the Federation is a good idea. If by 'good,' you mean 'globally suicidal.'"

Step 1: Planet secedes.
Step 2: The Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Orions, Nausicaans, etc etc (depending on your time era) come calling. With disruptors ready.
Step 3: Profit! (for them, not for your planet.)

[Pantoufle]

Heh you'll see where i'll go with the adventure soon

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

I do not recall any planet so mentioned but I have to agree with First of Two in that regard unless the planet is fairly deep within the Federation so that none of those powers can actually get to the planet or hold it.

Regards,
CKV.

[jkp1187]

There are plenty of "independent" powers out there that are not "superpowers" yet are able to maintain their independence....between the Breen, the Gorn, the Ferengi, the Naussicans, there's no reason why a major world wouldn't be able to quit the Federation without incident.

[First of Two]

The phrases "Major world" and "quit the Federation without incident" don't even belong in the same room, much less the same sentence.

Try "Major world" and "quit the Federation with massive social, political, and economic repercussions to both itself and the Federation." That'd be a bit more accurate.

Like California, Texas, Florida, or New York suddenly becoming an independent country wouldn't cause a sudden and massive disruption to both it and the US.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

It was cause definite upheaval. Just from discussing the various options and what might have to be done or what might occur if any of the various separatists get their way here in Canada, it is never going to easy or smooth in the transition and it will cause resentment to one form or another if it were to occur.

I personally think it would cripple the country and whatever province(s) seceded. That said, the planets of the UFP while interconnected are not as vitally dependant on one another as the various provinces of Canada or states of America so they could probably make a slightly cleaner break but it would still be messy and cause a number of issues to arise.

That said, I think that is what is being looked for in this scenario, the exploration of these issues.

Regards,
CKV.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by First of Two
Like California, Texas, Florida, or New York suddenly becoming an independent country wouldn't cause a sudden and massive disruption to both it and the US.

And if Alaska were to try and become an independent country, it would be any less of a disruption.

Besides Texas IS it's own country, just ask them

Another way things could be looked at -
The Federation is a collection of independant worlds, almost the same way as the United Nations is a collection of independant governments.
Ok the UN doesn't rule any thing but the concept is the same, as each member world has it's own laws, government, culture, military, economy.
There have also been examples of colonies leaving the Federation, cannot think of a single one that survived long after that however.

[redwood973]

I have always thought of the Federation being very much like the Second German Empire. The states which made up the Empire (which was really a federation) were the most important part of the Empire, but everyone always considered the Empire as a whole as being most important.

I guess the result depends on if the Federation is like the Second Empire (and the U.S pre-Civil War) where the states [planets] are the most important aspect of government; or is like the U.S today where the Federal government has assumed the most important role in government.

In the first instance I would think it somewhat simpler for a member to leave. In the latter I have a hard time seeing a central federal athority allowing itself to be taken apart. . .even if it is only one member. But then it's the Federation: welcome happy to have you! Oh, sorry to see you go! We'll keep a spot warm for you if you change your mind.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

Why does your description Redwood suddenly give me images of Gomer Pyle or the Waltons?

Regards,
CKV.

[jkp1187]

Originally posted by Phoenix
And if Alaska were to try and become an independent country, it would be any less of a disruption.

Besides Texas IS it's own country, just ask them

Another way things could be looked at -
The Federation is a collection of independant worlds, almost the same way as the United Nations is a collection of independant governments.
Ok the UN doesn't rule any thing but the concept is the same, as each member world has it's own laws, government, culture, military, economy.
There have also been examples of colonies leaving the Federation, cannot think of a single one that survived long after that however.

Yes, I think your way of looking at it is the correct way. After all, Jim Kirk and the crew obtained *asylum* on Vulcan after their little theft of the Enterprise -- something Texas could never do if Massachusetts was searching for someone guilty of, say, tax evasion and properly requested extradition.

An even better example is something we've already seen in history -- when France ended military cooperation with NATO in 1966. It was annoying, to be sure, but NATO survived, France wasn't attacked by the Soviets, and managed to stay independent.

(Annoyingly so. ) Of course, it was still free-riding off of NATO/American defense efforts, because everyone knew that if the Soviets attacked, NATO would ultimately HAVE to defend France. (Indeed, the Sovs couldn't possibly get to France without going through West Germany first).

So you see, if some government--major or minor--wanted to leave the UFP for purely parochial reasons, they could possibly do so confident that they could "free ride" off of Starfleet anyway. After all, when has Starfleet NOT come to the defense of the weak and helpless? This would make the resultant debate all the more pungent.

The European Union might be an even better analogy, if the EU had its own standing army.

[Yuber Okami]

There is indeed a canon reference to a planet which quitted from the federation: Turkana IV, the home world of Tasha Yar. I supose you remember the TNG episode in which it was depicted...

[Imagus]

The European Union might be an even better analogy, if the EU had its own standing army.

Give it time The proposed Mobile Reaction Force is halfway to being one.

Back on topic, I think the effects of secession would depend on both the planet and the period.

In Kirk's time, the Federation is more of an Alliance than a true Federation. There doesn't appear to be much of a Federation government, and as jkp pointed out, the worlds are pretty independent. Think of it as lying somewhere between the UN and the European Union, with an emphasis on trade and defence. The departure of one major world would have economic repercussions, and would cut the defence budget proportionately but that would be about it. The effect on the world itself would depend on how self-sufficient it was (colony - suicidal, Earth - recession plus some loss of luxuries).

Defence-wise - there's some evidence that there are many worlds and even multi-world nations inside the Federation without being members (Troyius, Eminiar and Vendikar for example) - think of it as a swiss cheese layout. Starfleet being what it is would help stop someone getting to the world, purely because it is in their sphere of control. I'd imagine there are a lot of mutual assistance pacts anyway.

By Picard's time, the Federation has evolved into a true (almost unified) political entity. I'd imagine somewhat similar to today's USA. There's a Federal government, unified economy and some local latitude. The secession of any major world would bring about major economic crises for both it and any worlds relying on trade with it. I'd imagine there would be some conflict from the more hawkish elements of Starfleet over the secession.