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Thread: Moore Charts Galactica's Future

  1. #16
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    and drink Earl Grey tea.. yes we know except in the future everyone is likelly to have an amalgamated conglomorate culture.. In Battlestar galactica .... it's an entirelly different NON Earth culture, with only ancient roots.

    For example, at Lee Adama's funeral they lay a flag on his coffin, made of polished wood, in a setting, and with uniforms that if you squinted your eyes you would simply believe were American. This screamed familiarity, where there should be none, as Egyptian burrial rights are.... completelly alien to that, so the chances of us heading down that one exact path are too silly to contemplate:It just lowers the quality of the show because they are appealing to the demographic, rather than coming up with something similar yet different.

    In the original series they often used alternate words, to make them seem just a bit alien, and their games were all.. familiar yet different. They just don't seem like aliens at all, which is what they are!
    Ta Muchly

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    I loved the original version, it's a camp classic, and it's such a shame that the people who made this didn't reinvent it as .. something new that simply used the premise they have here, instead of bolting to the story (So very badly) on to the original. I think the new show is absolutelly superb, with gripping storylines and a complex background, I just wish they could have figured out a way to call it something else!

    The one thing that does rub me up the wrong way is the similarity between everything in Galactica to.. America. The original made great efforts to change things, little words, like having cubits for currency, or those eponymous six sided cards.. they were human but you could imagine them being a branch from an ancient people.. it just feels a little too dumbed down. Every time I hear Roselyn say "Articles of colonisation" you can almost hear her say "Declaration of independance".

    The one thing I do like, however, is their polytheism (though they, I noticed, only recently remembered to say 'gods, instead of god ), and how the robots only believe in one god.. it creates allot of tension and flips it allround so you're never really sure who's right and what their motivations are. I also love how you just don't get the Silons.. what are those agents trying to do.. what is their true motivation.. intreaguing..
    You are aware that the creator of the original series is a Mormon right? That the premise was losely based on Brigham Young's trek to the Morman promised land Utah. Does this have any similiarities to what Larson was doing with his show originally? I do not know. He is a consultant on the show. One of the things, I liked about the original was the spiritualism of the show. Is this going to be something that will happen in this one? Who knows? (I am not Mormon at all my faith is different) Where did I get this information on this being based on the Mormon Faith? Any original BG actor will tell you at a convention. First heard it from Richard Hatch, who I later had a talk with later. He is a nice guy. The actor who was Boomer said the same thing. They both say that was the reason why the original series may have been cancelled.

    SOmething from the old series I and new I thought of from your talk.

    Now Cylons are robots right? That means they have programs. Remember the Master Control Programmers and Head techs etc. use to call themselves God in the passwords. Could that have something to do with them believing in God? Also remember the original series and the pilot. The lizard thing Baltar was talking to. Remember look back the thing is on the thrown in the beginning and in some series until Baltar comes to charge. If the lizard race in here are they behind the new Cylon evolution?
    Hey my opinion

    Without Star Trek: The Original Series there would be no other Trek Series or Movies regardless of shows rewriting the Series past.

  3. #18
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    From the implication, they have ditched any of the original concept of the 'Lizard' race from the new series. The Story is that the Cylons pulled a 'Skynet' and rebelled, weather that was a single inteligence or simply a panoply of robots, who all act differently, and joined up to gether to ally themselves against the Humans.. 'Finding god' would be such a reason, which has dark echoes of our own past, where the Monotheistic cultures assimilated and destroyed the old polytheistic religions.. which spells doom for our brave heroes

    I had not heard about the mormon connection no, but then the connection is cyclical with many religions and faiths, stirring images from the Bible (old testament), of the treks accross the deserts to israel etc, disaster, change and rebirth are common themes in human mythology because of our own doings and nature. And yes there is a definite resonance with the waggon trains heading west (of all religions), as the rag tag fugetive fleet relying on what they carried with them and what they could scavenge from the baren wilderness has definate resonance!

    It's a tough call about the idea that the 'computer' is the god of the Cylons. From the banter in the show the Cylons genuinelly believe in god, rather than just being controlled by the head machine. The 'Human' Cylons seem very much to operate with free will and have their own agendas, emotions, frailties and lives outside the machine that could be why, now, they have slowed down their initial assault, because the great war machine is becoming schitzophrenic!

    The show does also echo the themes of Bhudism (which are reflected in the Matrix) of a cycle of life and death, and rebirth, which I recall one of the Cylon agents seemed to be tapping into as he revealed he knew the future because he saw time as a circle, endlessly repeating events (reminding us of entities like the Oracle in the Matrix), which in a certain way makes me wonder if the Cylons are trully letting the humans live, because they both want to use them for their own ends, but then also to explore themselves, and as they explore they become trapped in the same cycle that they accuse the humans of doing.. Ok brain hurting now
    Ta Muchly

  4. #19
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    I have never watched any of the new series and simply never will( but have gathered enough from what others have said after seeing it), but like Tobian I thought making this show essentially west wing/US in space did the original a huge injustice. Farscape did an amazing job of using strange words for the characters to use that the audience would still understand. Always liked "frell"
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by T'lara
    You are aware that the creator of the original series is a Mormon right?
    I don't know if Larsen was/is LDS, but growing up in Utah while the original show was airing, it was a little hard to miss the similarities. I believe (IIRC) that the journey of the Galactica and the fleet mirrored one or more of the stories in the Book of Mormon.
    Former Decipher RPG Net Rep

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  6. #21
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    I liked the new BSG miniseries and the first 2 eps. I love the original series too, but this new show is done well on its own merits & will succeed I believe. I'm sure the new BSG will even have its own fans that have never seen the original BSG.

    The new BSG is definitely darker & more gritty than the original but that's also keeping w/ the sensibilities of a 21st century audience & the fact that we live in tense times too. I don't think a modern audience would go for the original BSG though it remains a favorite of those of us who grew up w/ it.

    The second ep, "Water", was interesting in that the original BSG had an ep entitled "Fire" which was about a major fire aboard the Galactica after being rammed by a Cylon fighter.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    I loved the original version, it's a camp classic, and it's such a shame that the people who made this didn't reinvent it as .. something new that simply used the premise they have here, instead of bolting to the story (So very badly) on to the original. I think the new show is absolutelly superb, with gripping storylines and a complex background, I just wish they could have figured out a way to call it something else!
    Unfortunately, camp is out with the rest of the glamorous upbeat 80's, unless you intend to make the series into a comedy.

    And Ron D. Moore did called it something else: The re-imagined BSG. Had Braga warned us that when he was doing ENTERPRISE a re-imagined Star Trek way before it premiered, I would have been a lot less critical. But he didn't because he thought he is not re-imagining (a symptom of grand delusion) and I have to tell myself over and over that it's not part of the Star Trek storyline and universe.

    P.S. We need a devil smiley.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
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  8. #23
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by jkp1187
    Anywho, TNG does the same thing, the way it portrays an optimistic vision of the future...in which all Frenchmen speak the Queen's English.
    Now THAT is a future I can look forward to.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  9. #24
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    As I've commented elsewhere, I love the new series. It may not be the old BG, but after the "Space Scouts" I'm grateful for that! I think it retained enough of the elements of the old series to be part of the family, while working for the 21st century.

    The writing is superb (even if the dialogue is inaudible at times), the visuals amazing (the handheld verite effect really gives you a feeling of immediacy not seen elsewhere), and most of the actors are very believable. And I love where the plot seems to be going.

    However, I noticed the similarities with modern (and especially US) military culture very early on. Zak's funeral was particularly jarring, but we also have US ranking (except for Adama and Tigh), the Articles of Colonisation, a striking number of journalists on the President's vessel (very West Wing) which is incidentally, at least once referred to as "Colonial One", Marines, smoking, no fraternisation between the ranks and so on.

    Sometimes it seems to me that nobody could be bothered to create anything new (we kept the clipped corners on the paper but that was about it), or maybe it was done to appeal to the non-sf fans. I have heard the show described as being "non-sci-fi" ! The religion seems to be one of the few places where they've made an effort.

    Don't get me wrong, this is the only thing that bugs me - and it's not the American elements, it's the present-day elements. It ruins my suspension of disbelief, I'm afraid
    Jon

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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imagus
    no fraternisation between the ranks and so on.
    Tell that to Lt. "Boomer" Valerii and Chief Tyrol. Sorry, I only seen the mini-series and not have gotten his official rank.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  11. #26
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    Now on the subject of 'Boomer' . . . it's interesting, as in "Water", how she is conflicted by her programing, abd her programed belief that she is really human, while in truth she's just a sleeper cylon agent.

  12. #27
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    We definitely need a [spoiler] code feature here.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  13. #28
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    No energy weapons, just missiles and projectile systems.

    Very character-driven with an atmosphere appropriate to the scope of disaster.

    Bad ass SFX.

    No technobabble.

    James Callais and Grace Park.

    What's not to like?


  14. #29
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    I do like the show, the effects are indeed superb (though SFX generall are becoming so these days!), I just still wish they had took the theme and renamed it all so it wasn't continuously pissing off the old fans

    Couldn't Ronald D moore have "re-imagined" a new title and some more names ! It has just put allot of people off. I was very sceptical myself first: I got over it, I am sure others will, but it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth

    I get really annoyed with this continual Holywood 're-invention' Why can't they just think up something new. The Quality of the stories and the writing and the character interaction all would STILL work had it not been called by the same name. While I have never ready any Mormon books, I suspect the names 'Galactica', 'Starbuck', 'Tigh', 'Adamma' and 'Appollo' do not feature

    The real reason of course is they are using the old brand to put it on the map, putting a familiar veneer on it makes the big-wigs feel more comfortable shelling out the big bucks for such a costly show, because they all seem to assume the american public have Attention Defecit Dissorder

    ..and I'm not getting sucked into an Enterprise debate
    Ta Muchly

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    and drink Earl Grey tea.. yes we know except in the future everyone is likelly to have an amalgamated conglomorate culture.. In Battlestar galactica .... it's an entirelly different NON Earth culture, with only ancient roots.
    That's right, and make it hot.

    Anyway, the creators of BG have at least been honest with the public -- they're not attempting to create the bland, boring monoculture that the Star Trek universe has come to inhabit.

    In fact, BG has returned to the goal originally set by Star Trek in the 1960s -- following a group of Humans, much like ourselves, who venture to the stars. And, more to the point, it doesn't ask its audience to raptly watch each episode to understand backgrounds facts.

    These guys are on the run. They work in a giant "aircraft carrier" that prowls the stars. They're in the Navy. The Cylons are out to get them. That's all you need to know. They don't need Ferengi to represent avarice, Vulcans to represent reason, Klingons to represent nativism, and Romulans to represent cunning. Instead, all of those are shown in Humanity, which is where all of these traits exist. There is no sanitized, politically correct vision of Humanity, no fair haired captain who can do no wrong.

    Moore could have spent a lot of time inventing wierd-sounding ranks, odd protocols, bizarre descriptions of alien pregnancies, but you know what? He didn't. Instead, he gave us the familiar names, ranks, and protocols, and instead poured his creative energy into giving us (so far) good scripts, REALISTIC special effects, and quality actors.

    Bully for him, by the way.

    By portraying the Humans as avatars of 21st century Humans -- and, indeed, Americans, if you must, it does something that Star Trek rarely did, even in the 1960s: treat those people with a degree of respect. Obviously, it doesn't soft-pedal problems within the crew, but on the other hand, they don't laughingly dismiss these problems as purely the result of (20th/21st century) ignorance; instead, they treat them as one of the problems of being Human.

    (As an aside, Star Trek is also all about top-down solutions to social problems. That model, I think, has (properly) been consigned to the ash heap of history. I don't think, however, that its writers ever understood that.....)

    I tried to watch DS9 yesterday, on Spike TV's daily showing of it. I couldn't. It wasn't one of the better episodes, but normally my attitude was that Star Trek was better than whatever else was on. My eyes started glazing over once the first bit of technobabble dialogue started spewing forth from one of the characters. I turned it off. I just don't buy it anymore. I weary of watching spacecraft that fly like aircraft, false moral crises, aliens that look like Humans, and, also, writers that treat one of the milestones in Human civilization -- the development of currency -- as something to sneer at. (I've never understood how THAT was supposed to work...probably just some neo-socialist 1960s thing thrown in for giggles....we're all in one big hippie space commune or something.)

    As for Enterprise, well, I think that the problem is that the show really WASN'T re-imagined. It's the same thing as TNG, just with uglier spacecraft and less powerful phasers. Sure, they (badly) re-wrote some of the backstories, but that wasn't a reimagining of the basic premises of Star Trek.....at least, not on the BG level.

    In the end...BG will be the death of Star Trek as we know it. I'm not saying that ST will end...but I predict that it will need to do more than a little re-imagining itself to survive.

    Oh, that, and there's better T&A on BG....

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