Straczynski Wants To Reboot Trek!!!

[T'lara]

Nothing you've said T'lara really counters what I said. It's Gene's concept that is strong -- which I totally respect. He depended on people to help bring it to fruition too. As for TNG, remember he didn't want any connections from TOS - no Klingons or Romulans. I can understand certain reasons for that, but I definitely don't agree with it.

40 years of what series? Yep. Of course how about those 21 years between the debut of TOS and that of TNG? He sure had a lot of successes in between huh? Great producer? Nor was he really a producer on TNG, he was a consultant, basically being kept on at Paramount's indulgence (and respect). It's also interesting to note that he had no hand in DS9 (other than the concept), and it's generally considered the fan-favorite of the five series these days.

Who said I was arguing but putting in my own thoughts on it. I do agree with people you know.

[Aldaron]

Yeah, I'm a bit sceptical about this. JMS is a bit like TOS itself - when he's good, he's excellent. When he's bad, he's nigh on unwatchable. Babylon 5 reflected this - utterly sensational series, overall, but has some real clunkers of episodes (not to mention the entire 5th season - yes, I know there are reasons for that, but it was still JMS')

And the less said about Crusade the better. I managed to watch three or four episodes without my small intestine strangling me to prevent me seeing any more - but it was close. If Crusade is any indication of what JMS-Trek would be like, then please, please keep him away from it!

[Balok]

Yeah, I'm a bit sceptical about this. JMS is a bit like TOS itself - when he's good, he's excellent. When he's bad, he's nigh on unwatchable. Babylon 5 reflected this - utterly sensational series, overall, but has some real clunkers of episodes (not to mention the entire 5th season - yes, I know there are reasons for that, but it was still JMS')

But this could as easily be said about the current show runners, Berman and Braga. Sure, they don't tend to such extremes; I've never really seen them either excellent or abysmal. I just think that's a characteristic of anyone.

And the less said about Crusade the better. I managed to watch three or four episodes without my small intestine strangling me to prevent me seeing any more - but it was close. If Crusade is any indication of what JMS-Trek would be like, then please, please keep him away from it!

Crusade was heavily messed with by suits -- folks who hire writers, and then think they can do a better job. In fact, JMS' original commentary, recorded for the DVDs, referred to this, and sections were edited out, causing him to demand that it be included as recorded, or entirely deleted. WHV did the latter on future pressings.

Could JMS do a good Trek series? Yes. Would it have clunker episodes? Almost certainly. Would the good episodes be worth it? IMO, yes.

[JALU3]

I guess all we can do at this point in time is wait to see what comes of his new Star Trek Show.

We can all speculate where we want him to go, we can all speculate what he will do. We can all speculate who will be casted.
But in the end all we can do is wait.

So I shall wait, patiently, waiting to see what happens.

[Aldaron]

But this could as easily be said about the current show runners, Berman and Braga. Sure, they don't tend to such extremes; I've never really seen them either excellent or abysmal. I just think that's a characteristic of anyone.

Possibly, but I think some show-producers have a real knack for it. If you compare, say, Babylon 5 to say, Stargate: SG-1, I think the latter has a "broader hump" in the middle of the bell-curve. Not as many absolute, knock-down, cracker-jack episodes, but not as many just flat-out embarrassing-to-watch episodes, either.

JMS is, IMO, one of those producers/writers/directors. He can do brilliant stuff - but then turn around and do an episode that it nigh-on unwatchable.

Crusade was heavily messed with by suits -- folks who hire writers, and then think they can do a better job. In fact, JMS' original commentary, recorded for the DVDs, referred to this, and sections were edited out, causing him to demand that it be included as recorded, or entirely deleted. WHV did the latter on future pressings.

My problem wasn't with the edits and removals. It was the choice of actors, for a start. Specifically, Gary Cole for Gideon. I just don't like Cole, full-stop. I don't think he can act his way out of a wet paper bag, and I'm yet to see him turn in a performance to disavow me of this. Tracey Scoggins is another - it was bad enough that she just about ruined B5's 5th season almost singlehandedly, but to then include her in Crusade indicates to me that JMS really had no idea how bad she was.

Secondly, there was the whole inclusion of a techno-mage in the story. If I didn't know better, I would have said the idea came from a fanboy, not the series creator. Technomages, who appeared in one (1) episode of B5, are immensely popular due to their "cool" factor, so JMS includes one in the new series. *Shakes head* - sorry, it reminds me of George Lucas including Boba Fett and his history to keep the fans of The Fett (a bounty hunter with 2 lines of dialogue, 2.5 minutes of screen-time and a demise differentiated from the blaster-fodder by a burp...) happy.

Could JMS do a good Trek series? Yes. Would it have clunker episodes? Almost certainly. Would the good episodes be worth it? IMO, yes.

Yeah, I'm not convinced of that. I see his only evidence for a "Wagon Train to the Stars" type of show including some really bad ideas and casting dreadful actors to play lead roles. I see Enterprise in the remaking, but with JMS at the helm.

A lot of people see JMS as the Second Coming (I'm not saying you do this, Balok, I'm speaking generally here... ), something I've never done. He has his own limitations - some pretty awful dialogue, casting Mira Furlan to play Delenn ("Oh, John! Can I utter a line without sounding as if I'm about to burst into tears???" *gag*!) and some pretty hackneyed, cliched situations. On the other hand, he's brilliantly capable of crafting a long story-arc full of metaphor and imagery, not to mention developing a wonderful "universe" full of stories. I just don't know if that skill would work in Star Trek. We don't necessarily want long arcs, and the universe is already there: I want Star Trek, not the NCC-1702 Excalibur!

Then again, I'm also a self-admitted heretic when it comes to terrific stories and their spinoffs. I think Rick Berman is underrated - his stuff from TNG and DS9 was excellent, for the most part. I don't think Joseph Michael Strazcynski is the be-all and end-all in sci-fi writing and production, and I think Peter Jackson's vision of The Lord of the Rings vastly improved on Tolkien's original story, which I find largely long-winded and tedious.

Wow...I'm gonna cop some flames for this one!

*pulling on asbestos underwear*

Fire at will!!

[Balok]

JMS is, IMO, one of those producers/writers/directors. He can do brilliant stuff - but then turn around and do an episode that it nigh-on unwatchable.

Yes, he swings between wider extremes. Remember, though, original Trek had a few unwatchables. Metamorphosis, The Omega Glory, The Way to Eden just off the top of my head.

My problem wasn't with the edits and removals. It was the choice of actors, for a start. Specifically, Gary Cole for Gideon. I just don't like Cole, full-stop. I don't think he can act his way out of a wet paper bag, and I'm yet to see him turn in a performance to disavow me of this. Tracey Scoggins is another - it was bad enough that she just about ruined B5's 5th season almost singlehandedly, but to then include her in Crusade indicates to me that JMS really had no idea how bad she was.

Okay, fair point. I don't know how much influence the network had over the casting (but I do know that the network, as the buyer, has and usually exerts a lot of influence in a lot of areas). When one considers the perceived audience for science-fiction, and when one considers that Tracy Scoggins is generally in any production of just two reasons, it's not hard to figure that some suit might have pressed for her. It's equally not hard to figure that JMS might have had a crush on her. Much of the Fifth Season of B5 was a train wreck, largely because a five year arc was compressed into four years, leaving just one year to craft new material. One might say that's a hazard with arcs, especially ones intended to last the entire run of a show, and then it would be fair to ding JMS for that approach.

Secondly, there was the whole inclusion of a techno-mage in the story. If I didn't know better, I would have said the idea came from a fanboy, not the series creator. Technomages, who appeared in one (1) episode of B5, are immensely popular due to their "cool" factor, so JMS includes one in the new series. *Shakes head* - sorry, it reminds me of George Lucas including Boba Fett and his history to keep the fans of The Fett (a bounty hunter with 2 lines of dialogue, 2.5 minutes of screen-time and a demise differentiated from the blaster-fodder by a burp...) happy.

Technomages made a cool one-off appearance and should never have been brought back. Some things are best left mysterious. On this point, we agree.

A lot of people see JMS as the Second Coming (I'm not saying you do this, Balok, I'm speaking generally here... ), something I've never done. He has his own limitations - some pretty awful dialogue, casting Mira Furlan to play Delenn ("Oh, John! Can I utter a line without sounding as if I'm about to burst into tears???" *gag*!) and some pretty hackneyed, cliched situations. On the other hand, he's brilliantly capable of crafting a long story-arc full of metaphor and imagery, not to mention developing a wonderful "universe" full of stories. I just don't know if that skill would work in Star Trek. We don't necessarily want long arcs, and the universe is already there: I want Star Trek, not the NCC-1702 Excalibur!

I liked B5 a lot, most of the time -- and I'll freely admit it had its share of just awful crap episodes. And I suspect that if he did Trek, there would be a few such episodes. I'm saying I'd like to see his take on it, is all.

Then again, I'm also a self-admitted heretic when it comes to terrific stories and their spinoffs. I think Rick Berman is underrated - his stuff from TNG and DS9 was excellent, for the most part.

While I vilify Braga to a far greater degree (I think he was elevated to a lofty position he hasn't got the skills to hold too fast), I don't have too much use for Berman, who by some accounts would probably have been fired except for his ability to cultivate friendships with powerful studio executives. That's good for his career, not so good for what he works on. I credit the best of DS9 to Ron D. Moore, and his generally good work on BSG bears this out, for me. Berman did do some good work on TNG, but let's not take credit from Pillar, Menosky, and a few others, under whose aegis some of the better episodes were produced. Berman is a more a suit than a creator, which is fine, because a show needs suits -- as long as they do what they do well, and stay out of the creative process.

I don't think Joseph Michael Strazcynski is the be-all and end-all in sci-fi writing and production,

He isn't. But I hold the current Trek crowd in such low regard that almost anyone would be an improvement. Hmmm, that's not really a ringing endorsement of him, is it? Let's just say I'd give him a season to see what he could do. Whereas I'd be very disappointed if Berman or Braga was anywhere near whatever the next Trek project might be.

[spshu]

Straczynski Still Wants To Run Star Trek

[black campbellq]

v.. I think Rick Berman is underrated - his stuff from TNG and DS9 was excellent...

The excellence in DS9 came from the work of Ira Stephen Behr -- the exec producer (and lead guy on the 4400 -- and Ronald Moore of Battlestar Galactica fame.

[D.S.McBride]

Originally posted by black campbellq
The excellence in DS9 came from the work of Ira Stephen Behr -- the exec producer (and lead guy on the 4400 -- and Ronald Moore of Battlestar Galactica fame.

Agreed; there's been too much evidence, too much testimony on the part of trusted professionals - attesting to Berman's story-telling incompetence - to grant him credit for DS9's quality level. I will happily admit that TNG took a serious upswing in the first few years following his taking up of the reins, but season seven, pretty much all of VOY, the last two movies (argh) and the blasphemic abomination called ENT (double argh) have indicated that his was a flash-in-the-pan talent. I simply cannot wait until this clown-act is dismissed and someone with less than ten fumble-fingers (possibly Manny Coto, although, having not seen any of fourth-season ENT, I'm not in a position to judge) takes over the driver's seat.

[Captain Blake]

but season seven, pretty much all of VOY, the last two movies (argh) and the blasphemic abomination called ENT (double argh) have indicated that his was a flash-in-the-pan talent.

Dunno if it's flash in the pan talent, or just picking the wrong person to listen to.

Look at the crappy 7th season TNG episodes. Look at the writer. Who will you find... Brannon Braga.

Voyager, Braga. Enterprise, Braga.


If Berman sits back and lets real writers do the work, we get 3rd-5th seasons of TNG, and DS9.

If Berman lets a no talent hack write things, we get season 7 TNG and Voyager.

I guess it's true, a leader is only as good as the people under him.

Alex

[REG]

I don't think Braga was involved in NEMESIS. I do know he co-wrote with Ron D. Moore on FIRST CONTACT.

[Captain Blake]

Good point, Reg. I'll edit. Thanks!

Alex

[Doug Burke]

Look at the crappy 7th season TNG episodes. Look at the writer. Who will you find... Brannon Braga.

>SNIP!<

If Berman lets a no talent hack write things, we get season 7 TNG and Voyager.

Imaginary Friend (Season 5)
A Fistful of Datas (Season 6)
Aquiel (Season 6)
Sub Rosa (Season 7)
Cause and Effect (Season 5)
Frame of Mind (Season 6)
Parallels (Season 7)

All written by Braga and (at least to me) quite enjoyable episodes.

Ensign Ro (Season 5)
Unifcaction, parts 1 & 2 (Season 5)
Brothers (Season 4)

All written (or co-written) by Berman, also enjoyable.

I think this qualifies them for "flash in the pan" status.

But it could just be me...

[REG]

Brannon's a good writer, probably because he has some good producers (like Ira Steven Behr, Michael Piller, etc.) who can edit his works before they approve for production. But when you have someone like Berman... his works suffer as well as his leadership over the creative staff of both VOY (when he replaced Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor and ENT (until he pulled back and let Team Manny Coto took over the fourth season run and make it easier on my eyes).

A torturous link: http://www.brannonbraga.com

[BouncyCaitian]

*gets out the Melta-gun, points it at the unclean ones website* Burn, Heretic!