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Thread: Prime Directive D20, D6

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by spshu
    Given the whole nature of the Prime Directive they would most likely have to do it through work for hire.
    If they do that, then they are going to commit resource to edit the submitted material, provide layout & artwork, print, and distribute.

    I doubt it, since they have already admitted no experience to d20. If I were in their shoes, I'd license it out with the conditions of royalty payment and that ADB have approval right. Now, it just a matter of who should be the licensed publisher.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by REG
    I think we d20 gamers are at a point where we want better quality d20 products. Poor Moridin and JD Wiker, when d20 Future came out, gamers were pretty much disappointed with the lack of in-depth information. It got some of us pretty cautious about the upcoming 96-page d20 Past, supposedly covering a timeline 1450 to 1950.
    Total tangent, but I picked d20 Past up today. It's craptacular. It's too short to do anything right and does everything wrong. It, in essence, focuses on three periods/genres and nothing else. Horribly named product. I was going to put up a mini-review on my blog after a second read-through. Short version, until you get a chance to see it yourself, avoid at all costs.

    Hey, I kinda liked d20 Space!
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Mappin
    Total tangent, but I picked d20 Past up today. It's craptacular. It's too short to do anything right and does everything wrong. It, in essence, focuses on three periods/genres and nothing else. Horribly named product. I was going to put up a mini-review on my blog after a second read-through. Short version, until you get a chance to see it yourself, avoid at all costs.
    I'll take my chance. I happen to like Pulp Heroes, originally a mini-game designed by David Noonan in one of them past Poly/Dungeon magazine issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Mappin
    Hey, I kinda liked d20 Space!
    There are parts of d20 Future that I like (mainly because I have seen a handful of them in past Poly magazine's mini-game series) and some I wished they expanded upon, though not many posters in Wizards' d20 Modern forum are enthusiastic.

    To be honest, of the new d20 Modern supplements to be released this year -- including d20 Apocalypse and d20 Cyberspace, as well as d20 Past -- my preference is d20 Past.

    Secretly, I desire d20 Starships, or Star Wars Ultimate Starship for that matter.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  4. #19

    multiple RPG systems

    My understanding is that all of these are to be published by ADB. They cannot licence the star fleet univers (their alternate military trek universe) to anyone else to publish. Paramount lets them use Federation/Klingon/Romulan, etc... but they cannot then sub-license that material willy nilly without paramounts permission which they won't get, so anything that has that meterial can only be published by ADB. They can themselves pay for the license to publish GURPS/D6 game engine, and the D20 open license lets them do a D20 product that requires the basic D20 rules from another D20 book that everybody already has.

    It seems odd that they would do so many different systems (spreading themselves thin), but this is I think do to the fact that they now have their own in-house print on demand system. So when they make a new product for SFB, F&E, or PRIME DIRECTIVE, instead of having to print several thousand at an outside printer that will take them years to recoup on sales, they can print on their own equipment exactly how many copies they need. If their warehouse only has 5 copies left, and they sell 10, they can simply print out the 5 more needed, they don't have to come up with the cash to print another several thousand. So the problem of having unsold copies of each version really isn't a problem, they will only print as many as they can sell. If something doesn't sell, then they won't have money tied up sitting in printed product in the warehouse, the unsold stuff will have never been printed, so to speak.

    This lets them do many more products. As noted on their website (a good place to go for more info), the background material (star fleet universe) will be essentially word for word from product to product and game to game. The material in the core book that was publised already for GURPS 3rd edition is being reused mostly word for word in the new GURPS 4th edition.

    This same material will then be re-used again in the D20 version and again in the D6 version. So they take the existing book, rip out the GURPS rules and insert the D20 rules. Then do the same for D6.

    So GURPS Klingons that was printed will have the GURPS 3rd stuff removed, GURPS 4th stuff inserted, and reprinted. (When GURPS went to 4th edition all the 3rd stuff stopped selling, so they have to update to 4th, hence the delay in new stuff last year since the 4th edition announcement). Then they will take GURPS Klingons, remove all GURPS rules, and insert D20 classes/feats/whatever in place of the GURPS stats/advantages/disadvantages/etc... and have D20 Klingons.

    When a new product is done (the upcoming GURPS romulans), they will publish it for GURPS 4th edition, then remove the GURPS components, insert the D20 components, and leave the majority of the text (which is just background material) the same.

    Since the majority of material in most of the products is background material, this just gets reused and only needs to be written once. This is a benefit of ADB's practice of making sure everything published for their game systems (Star Fleet Battles, Card Game, Role Playing Game, Federation and Empire) is (beyond the scale of each game) consistent with everything else published in their universe. Other trek publications only seem to be consistent until the next episode that contradicts it.

    Since there is very little in the way of trek RPGs out there now, I guess they are taking the opportunity to get their trek universe out there in whatever format people want it. People who didn't buy GURPS PD because it was GURPS will be able to get D20 or D6 if they want. If they like regular trek and not the star fleet universe version, well, still can't help you there. (Of course the flat-headed klingons have been explained...) but you can basic background with they system you like and then modify/customize to your hearts content, which is what most people do anyway.

    I don't know how well this multiple RPG system plan will work for them, but with their ability to print as little or as much of a given product as they need, if it fails they don't lose their company or license or much money, they just continue doing anything that is selling, and keep doing SFB/F&E and such as always.

  5. #20

    multiple systems

    I guess the way they are thinking is that they are not selling GURPS or D20 or D6, (and thus competing with themselves) they are selling their version of the trek universe. (this is the part that will be the same book to book). They create this once, then make it available in GURPS flavor or D20 flavor or D6 flavor.

    So instead of printing 6000 (or whatever number) copies of each variant, resulting in tons of books that won't sell, they only print as much of each flavor as is necessary.

    The different systems are a way to get thier products into the hands of more people than if they stuck with one system. There will be some flowover of sales from these RPGs to their other games since the background is consistent for all of them.

    If you are role-playing and get interested in starship combat, SFB gives you lots more info that is consistent with the RPG material, and if you wan't to know more about how many Fed constitution class cruisers are running around the Federation in a given year of the General War, Federation and Empire gives you the militaries of each race in that scale in a manner that is consistent with the other games. The Role playing game introduced their concept of a Prime Team (elite landing party good at combat/science/diplomacy/first contact), and there are rules for Prime Teams in SFB for use in transporter raids in space combat, and there are rules for Prime Teams in F&E for use in starting rebellions on captured planets and stealing enemy war plans.

    The concept of multiple game systems with the same background as been the method behind their madness for a long time now, and I guess they are just extending that to multiple RPG systems. Same background, play at whatever scale and with whatever rules you prefer.

    You can take Federation and Empire which shows the war and ship positions of Feds/Klingons/Roms/ etc across known space during the 18 year long general war, break one battle down and use Star Fleet Battles to show that battle in every detail, and then use your favorite RPG system to game out the boarding party actions of a marine squad attempting to kidnap the Romulan Ambassador to the Klingons off the bridge of the enemy ship. Well, if you had lots of time on your hands anyway...

    Nick

  6. #21
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    The fact that they have print on demand capability goes a long way toward explaining how they plan to make this business model work.

    With POD, they only have to print as many copies as they need at any time, so they don't have to worry about massive print runs that may not sell. They take in their orders from the distributors like Alliance, and individual game/comic stores, and only print that many copies. No risk... it's all profit.

    Nice.
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  7. #22

    Pod

    It also means that everything will be paperback color covers, with black and white interiors, but it means they have many more options of products to do than the otherwise could using regular out of house printers.

  8. #23
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    Thumbs up

    This sounds pretty cool to me. I seem to understand d20 better than GURPS, and this sounds like a great excuse to try d6 again. I have some WEGWars books and I guess a d6 Indiana Jones book, but haven't really looked at any new d6 stuff since WEG's last SW book (Special Edition sourcebook, I think).

    I wonder how many individuals will buy the same book for more than one system. I think I'll at least wind up with the corebook for each system (of the three, anyway). It would be nice if each of the three had kind of a different flavor, though. I guess the d20 ones would have different universey material attached to stats, like names for characters of each race?

    I guess they get more customers by getting different ones for each system, and maybe they are planning on some total geeks like me getting at least some of the books in multiple versions. If I were to limit myself to one system at this point, it may be d20, but I guess that would require me to also use my D&D books whereas the GURPS version requires no such thing. The only PD books I have so far are the PD1 core book and the first GPD corebook, maybe it's a good thing I don't have the second one yet, but if all the GURPS stuff comes outr first and I get around to the store in a timely manner, I'll get the GURPS versions at least, but hey, at the rate I've been going, I guess different release dates for different systems won't make a difference, and I may pick up whatever version I find first.

    I don't know anything about Storyteller or Champions. I think I'll wait and see about them, but if I had to say now, I'd say I'd leave them alone.

    There were a small handful of PD products for GURPS3 in not a very long time, and now they are printing the same ones for GURPS4 and doing new ones also for GURPS4. But yes, the GURPS4 versions are completely redone. And then there are the previous years when they used their own system.

    I guess these developments aren't going to lead to d20TrueTrek or anything. Too bad.

    I Never Actually Played SFB, but I did buy some of those products. Too complicated, so there's nothing for me to do with them, unlike RPG books. I do appreciate having F&E though.

    It would be too bad if SFRPGs didappeared mostly or all together, but at least I've been warming up to the fantasy ones. Hopefully at least Traveller will survive.

    How can you have a d20SW corebook for episodes one I and II but not III? I agree it would be much better never to have updated it for II, but since thay did, it just wouldn't be right not to do III!

    I believe SFU books have used the words star trek (in lowercase letters) but only in specifying that that is what it is not. Or maybe this was just the note about the next generation not being involved. Maybe diversifying PD will bring them more SFBers?

    I think it would be cool to have a new SGRPG using d20M instead of Spycraft. I still haven't bought the one there is yet, but I keep wanting to,even without having Spycraft.

    I think I'd be more interested in d20Past if it was ancient and/ or medieval times, or at least included them, especially ancient, and kept completely historical (by that I mean no Fantasy). I have d20Modern but not d20Future yet.

  9. #24
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    Just came back from the SFU board.

    At least the d6 one will be selfcontained.

    It will be fun to be able to compare Vulcans to Elves, use the stats for one as a new race or subrace in the other universe, blend the stats, use Fantasy Andorians, have a better starting point for homebrew d20TrueTrek, crossover Star Wars with Star Trek, I guess even involve Star Gate in the mix, Babylon5, more easily convert PD to Coda and then Icon, wow.

    I think it'd be cool if d6PD is closer to the old WEGWars game than the current d6 stuff.

    What if they somehow found out which elements of the SFU were more popular with the fans of each system, or worked best in each system, and did the sourcebooks in whichever system fit best, at least at first. Hee hee! What if... they did their own fantasy setting using races based on SFU! But would there be much point if they only used their own creations? I'd be interested anyway...

    I guess we ain't gonna see any official FASAPD, IconPD, or CodaPD.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cochrane
    I Never Actually Played SFB, but I did buy some of those products. Too complicated, so there's nothing for me to do with them, unlike RPG books. I do appreciate having F&E though.
    It's not that complicated. Granted, it's more of a wargame than a simple boardgame (compared to BattleTech). Most of my all-nighters in my heydays attributed to SFB.

    If the books are self-contained, that's good. Not many consumers are willing to pay for unnecesary pages of other systems' material. You can only go so far with dual- or multi-stats products, usually where the flavor text (or "fluff") takes center stage over the relevant game information.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  11. #26
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    It will be interesting to see what they do with Classes in PD20. Would it look similar to Coda, with classes for professions like diplomat and merchant, and a starship officer class divided into Prime Team, Marine, etc? Maybe Starship Officer wouldn't be divided up?

    I take it the Bucket o'Dice aspect of d6 won't be seen as much of a problem?

    I wouldn't have thought multistatting would be acceptable to the licensors, but apparantly it would. It would be interesting if they do some multistat books in which they make it particularly easy to mix and match rules for different aspects of the game.

    Someone over there (someone who's here too?) seems to think CodaPD might be a possibility, which I think would be great, all the easier to blend PD with TrueTrek.

    I guess the thing with SFB is it seemed to take too long to do too little.

  12. #27
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochrane
    I guess the thing with SFB is it seemed to take too long to do too little.
    Only if they apply the 32-impulse rule for personal combat. LOL!

    While I personally prefer d20 Modern class format, I think they'd rather do class-by-archetype, which is what most Player's Handbook owners are used to (there is no getting around that traditional convention).
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  13. #28
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    I, for one, am really pumped about the new D6 version- I've been playing D6 in one form or another for years now, and if they can get phaser damage right, they've got the perfect Trek-like RPG...
    I don't care if you're a scientist or the captain of a garbage scow assigned to Ruh'ra Pente- you don't wait until your shields are mostly gone to start shooting back. If your enemy has already started hurling subatomic death at you, descression has ceased to be the better part of valor!

  14. #29
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    The Gathering of the Steves??

    From the discussions at the SFU boards, it sounds like PDHero might be a possibility, thus a new connection with "our own" Steve Long. That would be cool, but from what I've read of Hero, I think personally I'll pass on that particular system.

  15. #30
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    In case you haven't noticed, Jonathan M. Thompson of Battlefield Press is the designer of PD20.

    He offered a tidbit of what to expect of PD20 in these forums:

    http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus...tml?1111218450
    http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=125218&page=1
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

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