More Appropriate?

[qerlin]

OK...Starfleet uses naval terminology and traditions. So wouldn't it be more appropriate for 'cadets' to be called 'midshipsmen'?

Also, depending on how far out a ship was, it might be impractical to send an officer canididate (either a youth or an NCO up for OCS)home for the academy. OJT as a middie? I would assume, like in the British navy of old, you would remain a midshipsman until you could test on certain subjects at a starbase or at the academy.

Thoughts?

[SIR SIG]

The if thats the case, then logically any cadet on his sophmore field assignment would be a midshipmen.

ie Nog at DS9.

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'...The Borg have stopped at deck 10...'
'...Deflector Control, no vital systems...'

Not a vital system! What the heck do you think stops the ship going 'poof' every time it goes to warp?

- ST:First Contact; Lt Hawk

[JALU3]

Correct . . . being a former Cadet myself.

However, those Cadets who attended at the Acadamy would be far better officers than ROTC cadets due to the impacted and rigerous training that they would have over the ROTC cadets. Furthermore, they would have more "inside" contacts than those who attended ROTC to become a commissioned officer, therefore have more experience backing them up.

At the same time though, it really depends which ROTC school you go to. No school is the same, and some have much higher standards than the other schools. I mean there is a set standard for all of them . . . but just strive that much harder. Good examples of this is the Citdadel, VMI, and BYU, all of which have outstanding ROTC programs.

However, from experience the best officers are those with prior enlisted service cause they already have the military background and experience as part of who they are. Furthermore they relate to NCOs and enlisted personnel far better, making far less early mistakes in command as would a straight officer out of any program would.

But in Star Trek, and thus Starfleet, the use of NCOs and enlisted personnel hasn't really been emphesised in anything close to cannon, short of SCPO O'Brian. For NCOs for the most part in Star Trek, their duties have been relegated to Ensigns for the most part.

However, I would presume that there a countless number of OCS and ROTC like programs with in the Federation to meet the personnel needs that is required to mantain such a large force. I mean look at the USDoD, we have how many programs out there to get officers (and enlisted) and every branch short of the Marines are comming up short.

So imagine how it is in the Federation, especially after this huge war that they went through. And as stated in an earlier string all those undertrained ensigns that were commissioned during the war.

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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

[Aldaron]

Originally posted by JALU3:
But in Star Trek, and thus Starfleet, the use of NCOs and enlisted personnel hasn't really been emphesised in anything close to cannon, short of SCPO O'Brian.

Hehehe...I had to laugh at poor old Miles last night while watching the TNG episode The Emissary. In Season 2 of TNG, Miles looks like he's wearing at least 1, maybe 2 gold pips on his collar, making him somewhere between an Ensign and a full Lieutenant.

By later seasons of TNG, he has two black pips on his collar, making him (according to Steve Marriott's ranks, anyway), a Chief Warrant Officer 3rd Class.

By DS9, he's wearing a little flat panel, with 3 stripes and 2 stars, making him a Senior Chief Petty Officer.

And Harry Kim thought he was hard done by! At least he hasn't been demoted over half a dozen grades as the series has gone on!!



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"May I find you with peace, and leave you with hope."

[Doug Burke]

Actually, qerlin, according to US Navy terminology, a Cadet is someone attending the Naval Academy or part of an ROTC program. A Midshipman is what a Cadet is called when serving in the field during training.

Thus all the Cadets on the Enterprise in ST2 should be considered Midshipmen.

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Doug Burke



McCoy: "You're taking me to the promised land?"
Kirk: "That's what you get for missing staff meetings, Doctor."

[This message has been edited by Doug Burke (edited 03-17-2001).]

[SIR SIG]

Hmmm. They were just playing with the whole rank structure/enlisted thing.

In the end though Miles got a good position.

------------------
'...The Borg have stopped at deck 10...'
'...Deflector Control, no vital systems...'

Not a vital system! What the heck do you think stops the ship going 'poof' every time it goes to warp?

- ST:First Contact; Lt Hawk

[REG]

I would not laugh at poor old Miles. We never did know his rank, other than what the wardrobe department pinned on his uniform costume. It was until TNG episode, "Family," did they finally revealed his rank.

He did good by portraying an enlisted NCO as a recurring character on TNG and later a part of the main cast of DS9. Like Sarge said, he got the good position, (Professor of Engineering at Starfleet Academy).

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Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 03-19-2001).]

[JALU3]

True . . . true . . . they were just working out the rank structure and the pips and what not to go along with it . . . and I'll have to admit it was kinda funny . . . but you'd think more NCOs would be involved in day to day operations. I mean look at the modern day structure. there are far more enlisted and NCOs than there are officers. But I guess times have changed . . . and ensigns have been our workhorses.


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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

[SIR SIG]

Well there were quite a few Transporter Chiefs seen and mentioned in TNG.

Pretty much every transporter room ever seen had a chief or such (cleverly disguised as a ensign/lt/warrant officer etc) unless one of the bridge crew did the job personally.

------------------
'...The Borg have stopped at deck 10...'
'...Deflector Control, no vital systems...'

Not a vital system! What the heck do you think stops the ship going 'poof' every time it goes to warp?

- ST:First Contact; Lt Hawk

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JALU3:
Correct . . . being a former Cadet myself.

However, those Cadets who attended at the Acadamy would be far better officers than ROTC cadets due to the impacted and rigerous training that they would have over the ROTC cadets. Furthermore, they would have more "inside" contacts than those who attended ROTC to become a commissioned officer, therefore have more experience backing them up.
</font>

Of course, the ROTC cadets would argue the opposite... USNA _may_ provide slightly more experience in purely military skills, but far less experience with real life, and often cadets (USMA, USNA, USAFA) have certain attitude adjustments that have to be made before they are able to work effectively with subordinate but far more experienced enlisted servicemembers.

People like me, bucking for a direct commission, think that's best. They all have advantages and disadvantages. The important thing is to work with the tools you have, recognize your weaknesses, and work to improve those areas to an acceptable level while focusing on your strengths.

Kinda like role-playing the doctor in a firefight. )


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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Aldaron]

Yeah...my campaign has a lot of enlisted personnel - most times you hear of a crewmember dying, or being stuck in a turbolift or whatever, it's "Crewman Jones" or "Petty Officer Sorenson". I only throw officer ranks in about a third of the time...
One important major NPC that interacts a lot with the PCs is SCPO Enzo - he's the senior-most NCO on the ship (Command branch), and his position is Chief of the Boat (COB), similar to the position in the US Navy.

Incidentally, that's the way I've always thought of Miles when he's referred to as "Chief" (no matter what insignia he has on in any particular episode); it's not so much his rank, it's his position.



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"May I find you with peace, and leave you with hope."

[qerlin]

We do a lot with NCOs in our campaign, as well; one of the main characters was a CPO in security and the security NCOIC. Another main character is the chief of the boat. The old crusty guy you don't mess with.

[JALU3]

Hehe . . . the next series needs more NCOs . . . they're good guys . . .

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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII