View Poll Results: Rate: In A Mirror Darkly Part 2

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 7

    2 6.67%
  • 8

    4 13.33%
  • 9

    13 43.33%
  • 10

    11 36.67%
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 29 of 29

Thread: Rate: In A Mirror, Darkly Part II

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    A Mi-go mine somewhere in the Rockies.
    Posts
    312
    I loved the first part start to finish. liked the effects and most of the plot of the second part...HOWEVER....I think they tanked the ending on a MAJOR point. If the Mirror universe captured TOS era tech in the "Enterprise" era, why don't they have at least TNG era tech when Kirk encounters them? After all they would have had the best the Federation could produce a hundred years before our Federation would have had the same level of technology. I know reverse engineering something as complex as the Defiant would take time, but I don't buy it taking that bloody long. For the episode to have worked, the Defiant should have been destroyed at the end.
    "For to win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." Sun Tzu - The Art of War

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles
    I loved the first part start to finish. liked the effects and most of the plot of the second part...HOWEVER....I think they tanked the ending on a MAJOR point. If the Mirror universe captured TOS era tech in the "Enterprise" era, why don't they have at least TNG era tech when Kirk encounters them?
    Easy, assume a few years to recreate the Defiant, then assume a pirate/corruption regime that couldn't form a coherent research body worth crap. I mean, we're not exactly talking about a Pell-Grant-Heavy galaxy here. I could easily see them taking two generations to just replicate the Defiant (and get it a generation early), but then just stangnating as all the infighting, back-stabbing, etc, continues.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    A Mi-go mine somewhere in the Rockies.
    Posts
    312
    I'll accept that explanation as a plot device to keep the canon timeline intact, but I still personally don't believe it. I guess if you apply the Chinese cultural restrictions that prevented them, despite being creative enough to invent gunpowder, from conquering the world because of their hidebound class structure, then I guess there is a precedent. The ending just tripped my personal "willing suspension of disbelief" alarm.
    "For to win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." Sun Tzu - The Art of War

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles
    I'll accept that explanation as a plot device to keep the canon timeline intact, but I still personally don't believe it. I guess if you apply the Chinese cultural restrictions that prevented them, despite being creative enough to invent gunpowder, from conquering the world because of their hidebound class structure, then I guess there is a precedent. The ending just tripped my personal "willing suspension of disbelief" alarm.
    Again, to make the 1701 in the alternate universe, the Defiant herself had to be given up, right? Or at least her secrets 'transmitted out'. Let's assume a few years then.

    And, whoever got the info after that? A huge coup and major secret.. something that the Kremlin.. erm.. the Empire would keep highly guarded in closed quarters with tight and constricting research.

    Remember, it took the Soviets a decade to create an atomic bomb after the United States used it, even though they had the bulk of German reserach on the subject.

    Now, couple that with the obvious back-stabbing (literal) in getting ahead, and that the tech specifications of the Defiant would be a HUGE boon to a paranoid and jealous scientific/military leader.

    "Sorry, Ceaser, but the launching of the USS Baton Rouge ended in failure as the ship was destroyed by an anti-matter explosion in the warp drive. We suspect sabotage , and the team responsible is being detained."

    Suddenly, 55 years from the finding of the Defiant to the construction of the USS Constitution for the good of the Empire isn't too much of a stretch.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Dodge, IA, USA
    Posts
    1,337
    The coup only succeeds because of the Defiant. Take it out of service to dismantle and reverse engineer and Sato's reign will be very short. Reverse engineer the Defiant while she is still in service can take several decades, but it will eventually be done.
    Steven "redwood973" Wood

    "Man does not fail. He gives up trying."

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    A Mi-go mine somewhere in the Rockies.
    Posts
    312
    It's nice to see there are some explanations that plausibly keep the canon timeline intact without straining believabilty too far. I however, will continue to maintain that, for me the second part wasn't as good as the first part because of the ending.
    "For to win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." Sun Tzu - The Art of War

  7. #22
    According to an interview with Coto, if Enterprise were given a fifth season there would definitly be another Mirror arc.
    Star Trek Character Builder

    Plasma Bolt!! Plasma Bolt!!

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    fringes of civillization
    Posts
    903
    One thing that sprang to mind was that Alt-Hoshi is going to be a virtual prisoner on the Defiant; The minute she steps off it every faction is going to try and take her out, and her only claim to power is the ability to blast everyone back to the stone age....again.

    Not that life on a Starship is bad, but the Imperial Palace is so pretty this time of year.
    _________________
    "Yes, it's the Apocalypse alright. I always thought I'd have a hand in it"
    Professor Farnsworth

  9. #24
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    936
    I think Coto pays a little "too" much homage to TOS. Doing more than 1 mirror episode would seriously "water-down" the effect.
    Duct tape is like The Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.

    - Carl Zwanzig


  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Conway, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    69

    Very Awesome!

    Loved both MU episodes. They, and Manny Coto are the proof that I'm right about always give Trek at least three seasons to get it's feet under it and moving. However, we won't have that now....

    I think one or two MU episodes a season would have been ok. DS9 pulled it off ok I think.

    I missed the orion episode, but am definitely looking forward to the upcoming last episodes which will be amazing if they keep the pace of these previous couple.

    I like to think of the Defiant as having been 'upgunned' because it was facing duty around the Tholian space...

    Oh, and the Gorn look rocked!

    Tom

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Kaunakakai, Molokai, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    4,020

    Thumbs up

    This episode is a good follow-up, however I can't bring myself to give it a 10 or a 9. 8 is the best I can give it.

    I guess I was put off by the inclusion of "Archer II," his anti-conscience(?). Is it really necessary?

    The Gorn Slar is pretty cool.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Manhattan High Security Detention Center
    Posts
    720
    Of course, the gamer geek in me has to point out the canon establishment of aft-firing torpedoes and phasers on the Constitution-class...
    I agree but the UBER geek in me could say that perhaps the Defiant was a special version of the Constitution, maybe a sub-class prototype, armed with aft-firing weaponery.
    "No captain kicked ass, took names, outsmarted the machines, and then scored the babes like the Kirkmeister" -Liquidator Queeg


  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Kaunakakai, Molokai, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    4,020
    Quote Originally Posted by IceGiant
    I think Coto pays a little "too" much homage to TOS. Doing more than 1 mirror episode would seriously "water-down" the effect.
    Meh. It was a 2-parter story. Had there been a fifth season, he would have explored MU again.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    675
    I think Coto pays a little "too" much homage to TOS. Doing more than 1 mirror episode would seriously "water-down" the effect.
    I think that Manny was doing just fine in terms of his TOS homages - he has provided us with the best episodes of Enterprise (heck, some of the best episodes of Trek).

    Sure it could be overdone - but Manny has certianly earned my trust.

    I can't wait to see what project he has in store next now that Trek is in hibernation...
    I love deadlines - I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by
    - The late Douglas Adams

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •