Last Voyager...Shit for an ending?

[The Shoveller]

I thought it was a good ending to a mediocre series, but it really messes up the Trek universe.

They have to make a choice.They can write that the Federation accepted the advanced weapons systems, and deal with the fact that the Romulans, Klingons, and Dominion would immediately be so threatened by the immediate 30 year advance in weapons research that a war would break out. Or they can courtmartial the Voyager crew for accepting aid from the future from Adm. Janeway and breaking Federation law. Federation adversaries would utterly freak if the crew of Voyager were allowed to be free with the knowledge of those weapons systems.

[Phantom]

AslanC,

The USS Rhode Island looked to me to be based on the original Defiant/Pathfinder (what I call the Pathfinder-class) design out of the DS9 Tech manual.

As to the problem of the new tech., who knows what the post-war years would bring. As the Borg are still a major threat to all the Alpha Quadrant (don't think they are down for the count yet) races, I don't think that a shareing of information between the respective gov'ts would be totally out of the question.

Anyway, since the new and improved ST drivel is in the past, guess we will never know. Unless Braga and Berman suddenly realize they can pad their wallets with the answer.

[Phantom]

Robert,

The Chakotay-Seven thing was seen in a earlier ep. in which it is revealed that seven does have "feelings" for him. Not exactly out of the blue...But close, I guess.

As to the grey hair, yes it is 10 years since they returned...After a further 16 years in the Delta Quadrant, which is a total of 26 years since they were stranded. Harry alone would be around 49-50 years old, and Janeway has at least 10 years on our favourite Ensign...Putting her around 60. I don't think grey hair would be out the question by that time.

[The Shoveller]

By the way, the ALL TIME MISSED CHANCE AT A GREAT LINE...

When Barkley and Adm. Parris appeared on Voyager's viewscreen, The first words from Voyager should have been Tom Parris saying...

"Hi Dad, I'm home."

The TNG movies are not in the Federation's past. 7 of 9 shows up in Star Trek X. Star Trek X is supposed to be heavy on combat. They can't leave that armor off the flagship of the fleet, can they?

[SIR SIG]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
AslanC,

The USS Rhode Island looked to me to be based on the original Defiant/Pathfinder (what I call the Pathfinder-class) design out of the DS9 Tech manual.
</font>

That is the Nova class Phantom from 'Equinox'.

Although I'd heard Harry's ship was Sovereign (Dman you Styro, ya don't know your ships )

So whats the go with the Hubs? Just a natural WormHole Nexus?

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SIRSIG
AKA: SirPostalot
AKA: The MapMaker
AKA: The Trek Cartographer
AKA:...Well I could keep going forever

[Evan van Eyk]

Great I do not know when they are going to show the finale in my part of the world! I want to see it now

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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI


www.farrealms.de

[Dan Gurden]

Hey Evan.

If you can get to London over the next 3 Saturdays, Pages Bar in Westminster will probably be getting the Video from the states and playing it for the crowd.
I would imagine that its most likely to be a couple of weeks, though.

Sound like the episodes going to be greatly enhanced with a stiff drink.


** Extra **

Uniforms. A complete overhaul? Huh? The pictures I saw for the episode on startrek.com seemed to show the same future uniforms used in 'All Good Things...' and 'The Visitor'. Which if accurate, at least shows some continuity...

The babys sex. Its a girl. It didn't need to be implied in the end, due to the news being delivered by the doctor in several earlier episodes for the season...

New Weapons Systems... Huh? Oh Bugger, there goes our games...



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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Robert Lai]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
Robert,

The Chakotay-Seven thing was seen in a earlier ep. in which it is revealed that seven does have "feelings" for him. Not exactly out of the blue...But close, I guess.

As to the grey hair, yes it is 10 years since they returned...After a further 16 years in the Delta Quadrant, which is a total of 26 years since they were stranded. Harry alone would be around 49-50 years old, and Janeway has at least 10 years on our favourite Ensign...Putting her around 60. I don't think grey hair would be out the question by that time.</font>

Exactly. The Chakotay-Seven relationship seemed to be rushed in to justify the gravestone in the alternate timeline and thus an added motivation for Adm. Janeway to run off and mess with the timeline.

As for Harry Kim turning gray ... I must have good genes. Most of the men in my family have full heads of jet black hair well into their 60's ... my father is only now getting that salt & pepper look, and he's closing on 70. (Kim was born in 2349, the episode is 2371 + 16 + 10 = 2397, and so he's only 48.)

Regarding the gender of Tom & B'Elana's child ... if the doctor announced it, it was in an episode I haven't yet viewed. Still, even if you know, most doctors would say, "Congratulations on the birth of a healthy baby girl."

With the uniforms, it's not that we haven't seen them before, but that Starfleet apparently has changed uniforms several times within the past 40 years. This is a major undertaking for any organization, though having your clothes replicated instead of hand- or factory-stitched is probably a great time saver. Heck, the US Army has trouble getting everyone into black berets (and the hubbub over THAT decision is pretty intense).

BTW, the Star Trek Chronology refers to 'All Good Things' as an alternate future, with the 'anti-time' future taking place about 2395, a year later than Chakotay's death. The finale seems to have evolved out of painting oneself into a corner.

As for the 'future technology' ... don't be surprised if the answer is, 'what future technology?' Figure that the last of the future torpedos destroyed the sphere, and the shields were about to give out. Alternately, since the technology came from a world that now no longer exists, the technology disappears. Kind of a high-tech grandfather paradox.

(The grandfather paradox, for those who aren't up on time travel, is the question of what happens when a time traveller goes back and offs his grandfather. Does he disappear?)

Bob

[This message has been edited by Robert Lai (edited 05-24-2001).]

[Mig1]

Yup, those were the same furure uniforms we have seen before. I never liked them... BUT! I totally dig that black uniform trench coat Janeway had when visiting Chakotay. Very snazzy.

All in all, I liked it. I found it to be very enjoyable TV.

[Weyoun11]

They should of done an end series arc to tie up their lose ends but with multi-epsiodes instead chose their usual bland discontinous format. For a second I thought the two Janeways were going to ask Q to help them destroy both the Borg transconduit network and still get them home. That would have sessed Voyager out as a TNG era fraud for sure! It was an okay episode (but for a finale...nah) but I agree the armor and better yet "transphasic torpedoes" was a bit much. The Nova class "USS Rhode Island"?! What was that a joke? Federation technology is such in 2397 were a shuttlcraft and a scout-class vessel can befuddle two Negh'Var or Voodieh class warships! The problem now is as of whenever in 2377 Voyager returned to the Federation is 30 years ahead of technology over its other fellow Alpha Quadrant rivals and does this mean the "Batman" type armour as someone mentioned earlier goes on the Federation fleet in Trek X? Does Picard say," Ambassador Worf, fire transphasic torpedoes!Bring the Emergency Command Hologram online!"? Wouldn't it make more sense just to install the armour on the ship initially (like the Defiant class) around a ship as it was being built as opposed to one making it an option to flip on or off with a switch? The Borg were dealt a huge blow but then again we may never see them in Trek again. One ship and one series has proved that perhaps Trek has just gone on too long now that its turning itself into a joke and hence TPTB answer to Trek V series is a "backward" (no pun intended) idea. The problem with the "granfather paradox" scenario regarding the future technology is when Voyager returns to Earth orbit you can still see the modified technology on its hull. In a paradox it would have dissappeared
as soon as they cleared the conduit.

[This message has been edited by Weyoun11 (edited 05-24-2001).]

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sarge:
What was the deal with Voyager coming out of the conduit behind the sphere? My best guess is, they took the off ramp for the Delta Quadrant portal, waited for the sphere to pass, shifted into reverse or did a U-turn to get back on the conduit to the Alpha Quadrant, and followed the sphere out of the portal, all the while staying ahead of the shockwave. I'm sorry, but even if Tom is as hot a pilot as he thinks he is, that's not gonna happen. Unless I misunderstand the physics of trans-warp conduits, I don't think you can stop inside them, let alone reverse direction.

</font>

My fiance watched it with me, and she thought that Voyager came out from INSIDE the Sphere... I don't think that's what happened, but I have no idea what DID happen. Probably another example of a Trek writer writing himself into a corner, then using the transporters or something to get out of it.

The episode was OK... but not great... and I never did see Seven in a bikini.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
I thought the armour was an interesting idea, they did have 30 years to develope it, I do have to agree the interpahasic torpeodoes were overpowered, but it could be argued that they are the "enevitable" extension of Quantum Torps. However, it should still have taken more than one or two to destroy a borg cube...A sphere or scoutship sure, but not a cube.
</font>

The problem is that now Starfleet will have that technology 30 years early...

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Robert Lai:
As the final episode began to unfold, I thought, oh, no ... not another time-travel multiple timelines crisis-in-the-making!

The episode was a chicken-and-the-egg temporal paradox - the Janeway who returned to the past to bring Voyager home after 7 years - will now never exist. The complete absence of the time police (Capt. Braxton and company) suggests that this is the 'correct' flow of events, but then how did the 'incorrect' one come to pass? A quantum state flux that is ultimately unresolved.

Nothing explains why Janeway and the others are all prematurely gray ... it's only ten years after their return to the Alpha Quadrant. [This message has been edited by Robert Lai (edited 05-23-2001).]</font>

It's 10 years after the return, but 33 years from "now"... it took an additional 23 years to reach Earth.

As for paradoxes, it's worse than you describe. The anti-borg technology was developed in large part due to Janeway's additional encounters with the Borg... which now never happened. But the Federation now has that technology, because Voyager brought it.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Max-Q]

It wouldn't be the first time Voyager has escaped the Grandfather paradox. What about the 29th century mobile holo-emitter?

[Mig1]

Oh, and with that Prometheus class ship at the end, does that mean those damn things are in production now?