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Thread: Last Voyager...Shit for an ending?

  1. #31
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    Robert,

    I guess I am little biased then. My family is the reverse, we go grey early on.

    I thought the Nova-class was smaller then Voyager. There was no opportunity to compare the size, but the impression I got was the the Rhode Island was larger then Voyager. Also, wasn't one of the "pathfinder" ships sent out to meet with Voyager? The Nova-class wasn't designed for that type of extended mission. The Captain of the Equinox said as much.


  2. #32

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  3. #33
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    Angry

    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don:
    That was ass.

    I agree with you, oh Most Powerful Creator. (Groveling)


    It is only fitting that a series plagued with inconsistent writing and a botched premise would stumble so badly in the end.

    We spend too much time in a future that never happens with people that will never exist.

    Time travel and Borg – only fitting to go to this well one more time.


    Unimaginative writing at it's best!!
    I could've done better giving typewriters to mentally deficient fellow inmates at the Mental Health Center!

    And the ending…OMG. I sat in disbelief. I watched the credits scroll by. I mean, I was sure there was going to be more. What’s the celebration like? What happens to all the Maquis? How does everyone feel about being split up after seven long years?

    We’ll never know.

    I wasn’t expecting the big hoorah that was DS9’s final curtain call, but this was pathetic. Did the writers and producers have no pride? For an regular episode it was poor.

    For a finale it was unforgivable.

    And this, from a Voyager supporter.

    </font>
    I agree with you wholy. To be honest, as a Voyager hater, I found this to be on parr with what the series had become, a creative wasteland. I fear the Great Bird of the Galaxy is spining in his grave on this one. This show, whenever it showed promise, managed to kill it in its infancy. This enitre 7 year show lacked from a creative sense of direction, allowing Voyager to insult, anger, or kill Most of the Species in The DQ. When the Federation does manage to get back to where Voyager has gone before, they will have to fight, or give alot away to calm those races down.

    Thank you Voyager, you knocked diplomacy back on its ass.

    The Deployable Armor, IMHO, was the only moderately interesting thing on the finale. Unfortunately, it did not disappear when Voyager exited the conduit. It was still there when they flew into the midst of the fleet assembled to deal with the Borg. Yeah! Bring on the Temporal Investigators!!

    Sorry, I just needed to vent a little of the seven year build up of diappointment at this series.

    Thank God Its Over!!!!!!!!!


  4. #34

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  5. #35
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    Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. Can't make my point without referring to stuff, so there's stuff here:


    I can just imagine the Department of Temporal Investegations doing a very, VERY deep de-briefing of Janeway. Was it just me, or was the older (Admiral) Janeway being RIDICULOUSLY irresponable??!! She went back in time because some of her crew didn't make it home, but most did. Here's the critical part though: because of the Voyager's longer return trip (in her timeline) they learned more about the Borg and were able to develop weapons effective against them. With that extra trip cut out, that wouldn't have happened!

    The older Janeway might well have been changing history enough such that the Borg would have wiped out the Alpha quadrant! Seen in that light, I guess it was a good thing she gave the advanced technology to her younger self. Still, this was very very irresponsable. Can you imagine Kirk saying, "well, we saved the day but lost a redshirt along the way... better go back in time and try again!" Even seen in the best light, older Janeway's actions were putting the entire ship in terrible risk to save those few.

    Granted occasionally the needs of the few DO outweigh the needs of the many, as demonstrated in STVI. But not often. What older Janeway was doing was also against one of Star Trek's themes: that nothing good comes without difficulty. The easy answer, the monkey's paw, the deux ex machina has a terrible hidden cost. This is the moral of so many TOS episodes! And what could be more deux ex machina than your future self coming back in time with technology and knowledge to solve all your problems (which you would have solved on your own, but at cost)?

    There were some nice touches. I liked Nelix's and 7's postal-chess scene. I liked seeing how the characters changed as they got older and more mature (particularly Barclay). I liked the armor. I liked the Klingon technologist. I really liked the Borg's transwarp nexus- finally putting on screen what had been hinted about in TNG. I liked the sense of history and reference to experiences in prior episodes. But when the underlying moral, the message is contrary to Trek, I have a hard time getting past that. However, the older Janeway's heroic sacrifice partially saved that.

  6. #36

    Angry

    Not only does the Federation have the new tech, but the Borg have it as well.

    ::imagines a Borg sphere covering itself with Batman armor and vomits::

    Diamond hit the nail on the head with his commentary. Voyager isn't Star Trek. It's some kind of touchy feely politically correct do-whatever-feels-good-without-accountability type of thing.

    Star Trek 3 works because Kirk is mostly in the right. Something is wrong with his friend McCoy, and the cost of solving the problem will only be his career and a ship that is going to be scrapped anyway. Along the way, they stop a diabolical Klingon plot and save Spock, a beloved character of many a Trekkie.

    Janeway on the other hand, knowingly and flagrantly endangers the entire Federation for no real reason. Countless billions of lives don't mean jack to her as long as she can get home with 2 more people alive than before (and 9 years earlier).

    Typical Janeway.

    And to be truthful, I don't think many fans would have been disappointed to see the entire crew of Voyager die horribly. They simply weren't good characters to begin with. Personally, I only watched the episode hoping that everyone would die. I was very disappointed when they got home OK.

    As for the episode itself... even the TOS episode with the cloud city and the oppressed miners was better. I thought Endgame was THAT bad.

    Anyway, between Voyager and DS9, Star Trek has been completely killed.

    Rest in Peace Star Trek.

    Good Riddance 24th century Trek.


    ------------------
    Gabriel Alexander Vampyre

  7. #37
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    Unhappy

    What was the worst thing about the final episode of Voyager? The commercials for Enterprise. (During which the announcer mispronounces “Janeway.” I wasn’t watching the screen the first time, and I swear I heard John Wayne.) I was in denial…but now I know it’s true. And you think Janeway messed with the timeline? Just wait.

  8. #38
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fairchild:
    What was the worst thing about the final episode of Voyager? The commercials for Enterprise. (During which the announcer mispronounces “Janeway.” I wasn’t watching the screen the first time, and I swear I heard John Wayne.) I was in denial…but now I know it’s true. And you think Janeway messed with the timeline? Just wait. </font>

    Actually, I had a moment where I thought the promo was voiced by Leonard Nimoy.

    B.


  9. #39
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    Think it is going to get any better with this new garbage they are going to be spewing out in a couple of months???????? (thinks of new series, shudders...)

  10. #40
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    Thumbs down

    If the series was one huge 'Spock's Brain' of crap, Endgame was the one with the far-out flower-child, space hippies looking for Eden, man.

  11. #41
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
    Think it is going to get any better with this new garbage they are going to be spewing out in a couple of months???????? (thinks of new series, shudders...)</font>
    Hopefully, moving it to a past era will reduce the can-you-top-this of a series set in the 24th Century.

    But I definitely will take a wait-and-see approach on this one. It would have been nice if even a single shot of the ship, or a montage of the cast had been available, but I suppose they don't want to burn out early on the promo wagon.

    Bob


  12. #42
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    I can only guess that the 'interphasic torpedo' evolves out of either the original 'dimensional interphase' (Tholian Web) or a variant on the chrono-phasic cloaking technology experiments of the Romulans. The torpedo likely phases in-and-out of multiple planes of reality.

    However, that lends itself to the question of how such a device would be useful for more than a handful of shots before the Borg adapted their defenses to it, unless the mechanism shuffles among infinite planes at random.

    As for Voyager's batshields, it seems an improbable bit of dramatic license - ablative shielding that is 'replicated' onto the exterior of the ship. However, what is the shield made of, and where does the raw material come from? If it is kept in storage, how much does it weigh? How much space does it take (surface volume of ship at 105%)?

    Even more mind-boggling is how the ship and shield maintain synchronous movement. While a series of tractor-beam connect points would link shield to ship, the shield would also have to be linked to the inertial dampers lest it jar against the ship.

    As far as Spacedock stats for either go, I would likely disallow it for any campaign I'm currently involved in.

    Bob

  13. #43
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    hehe... Wait for the book, there's bound to be plenty of decent technobabble about it in there.

    If the torps seem to big and bad, just remember that it was implied that they were only notably effective against the Borg in this century. Certainly whatever scientific concepts this technology unlocks will allow for some major advancements in defenses.

    Being the goody-goodies the Federation peoples are, this will probably push for a strong Temporal Prime Directive movement among the Council. If it was a few statements before, expect them to publish a few books.

    Still, there's a comforting irony in knowing that even the writers have complicated things so much that they're willing to go back to "a simpler time".

    Just think, no Borg, no time travel. I'd just like to see them behave themselves but unless they have the ritual end-of-series shooting of the writers, it'll be coming around again.

    At the beginning of Voyager, we used to joke that that's where TNG and DS9 shed all their bad writers.

  14. #44
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    Remember, 7 fancied Chakotay for some time before this episode, even though they never really planned it out well. She should have been humanizing more steadily over the length of the series. Reluctantly, yes, but not all at once at the end.

    I loved that bit with Reg stuttering.

  15. #45
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    Come on, guys... it wasn't that bad. Sure, I had a better time when I was stuck in an elevator in Chicago when the power went out and I was trapped by myself in the dark for six hours, but it could have been worse.

    Like Mr. Mappin, I, too, have been a conscientiuous Voyager fan since its inception. Also like Don, however, I was really disappointed by a great many things in the final episode.

    1. 7 of 9 and Chakotay? Please! What are the chances of something like that? If I remember correctly, Chakotay tried to blow 7 of 9 off the ship in "Scorpion, Part 2." But they overcame their mutual hatred, fell in love (in an episode's length) and got married? Yeah... right.

    2. Admiral Janeway managed to travel to the past using a Klingon time travel device?! I guess I always knew that the Klingons were all just a bunch of poindexters...

    3. Captain Janeway, queen of the Temporal Prime Directive (heh heh heh) actually allowed her future self to so significantly alter the timeline? Hmm...

    On the up side, I was pleased to see Alice Krieg as the Borg Queen once again. Susana Thompson didn't really do it for me.

    On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate this final episode as a 3.3275. It wasn't nearly as bad as some of them, but there were (oddly enough) more episodes that were better than this one than worse.

    mactavish out.

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