Last Voyager...Shit for an ending?

[Phantom]

Just a couple of points to add to the above;

1) I don't disagree with you on the Chakotay/Seven thing, but how much time did pass between "Scorpion" and "Endgame"? If enough time had past...maybe. It would have been alot better if they had shown the progress of the relationship.

2) I think the Klingon "aquired" the device on his own.

3) Agreed.

[theSisko]

In answer to Gabriel:
Voyager and DS9 have effectively killed Star Trek ? DS9 ? Not bloody likely.
I don't think so. Particularly since that show took Star Trek from exploration to dark intrigue and then into full escalation of a war that was bloody and nearly destroyed the entire United Federation of Planets.
If Voyager had even a tenth of DS9'S writing and acting ability then it might have been worth watching. But it wasn't.
Where I expected great exploration..I got the Voyager crew finding Amelia Earhart in space by scanning the rust debris of a pickup truck they found in space.
When I expected great acting..I found the stonefaced Janeway whom I didn't care whether she lived or died. Even exposing her back seemingly half naked in one episode she provoked no response from me.
Then there was the Tuvix debacle, Sesca, and Paris and Janeway devolved into reptiles that humped each other and had lizard like babies somewhere just for going to Warp 10.
Poor writing. No pitiable writing..they just weren't even trying. No wonder Robert Beltran(Chakotay) ripped the series apart in an interview.
Rest in Peace Voyager and thanks for years of confusion and visual pain which made me turn to Babylon 5 and now Farscape for sources of entertainment. I hope and pray Enterprise is better.

[This message has been edited by theSisko (edited 05-25-2001).]

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[Dan Gurden]

Well as stated in the other thread, I have only heard about the episode, and have worked it into my series. Being a vital componant to the games background...

From the sounds of it, the 16 years to get home starting point to the episode sounds about right...

Now its entirely possible that Janeway did go through the time travel, and was rebuffed by the younger Janeway 'preserving the temporal prime directive'
Possibly ending in a Janeway vs Janeway fight...

Either way, the opportunity to get home should have been there. Maybe even Earth in their sights.

But being so close before the option was given (Lets face it, Voyager started 70,000 light years away, and has traversed over 50 of them in the last 7 years. Hell, that puts them in the damn Beta Quadrant, and if Admiral Janeway REALLY gave a shit about her dead crew, wouldn't she have gone back to say Day 1 in the Delta Quadrant, possibly with some rescucitation Nanoprobes as well?) surely the Starfleet crew would be willing to continue mapping and exploring...

And then right at the end, Braxton can show up. (An earlier one from before his court martial for crimes he would be about to commit), and with a satisfied grin, he can take Admiral Janeway in for breaking the Temporal Prime Directive...

Fade out on Braxtons cheshire cat like grin...




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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[ComaBoy]

1. It should have been titled "All Timeless Things..."

2. I liked the Rhode Island; lousy name, cool design (a modified Nova design, likely larger than the Intrepid class in my mind)

I'm still working my way through the tape...

[starkllr]

I've got to agree with most of the posters on here...Endgame was terrible. I won't even get into the technobabble or temporal prime directive...for me, the problem was, it was simply bad storytelling.

It was all a big cheat. Voyager didn't get home through the efforts of her crew, but through the action of one person who now no longer exists.

Not to mention that the writers forgot the most basic rule of all - show, don't tell. Lots of stuff happens - Seven dies; Voyager battles it out with the Borg several times; they develop new tactics and new technologies; they return home triumphantly. And we NEVER see any of it - it's all just mentioned offhandedly by Admiral Janeway.

Ack!

Someone else on here asked how we'd have ended Voyager?

Try this. If we simply must have the Borg and time travel, fine. We open with Tom & B'Elanna's baby being born. Just as the doctor announces "it's a girl", Voyager comes under attack. It's the Borg! We get a shot of the transwarp hub/nebula and several Cubes coming after Voyager. Roll the credits.

We're back, and Janeway's Captain's Log tells us it's three months later. The ship is only just now repaired from the deadly Borg attack of three months ago. B'Elanna took the death of her baby very hard, but she's trying to cope by working doubly hard to take her mind off her grief. Tom's a complete mness. And the crew is mourning the loss of 5 other members of the "family" lost in the attack.

We see the crew try to come up with tactics for the next, inevitable Borg attack, Chakotay and Seven are working together, they've been at it for weeks, there's obviously an attraction there, and we cut to commercial on their first kiss.

We're back, it's 6 months later, and Voyager's in another battle with the Borg. Their new tactics are effective, and they destroy a cube, but not without a lot of damage, and three or four more crew killed, and a main cast member - let's say Harry - severely injured, maybe permanantly maimed. The Doctor works desperately on Harry and the other casualties, while Janeway picks through the debris of the cube they blew up to gather any new tech they can. We get another Chakotay/Seven scene, they're obviously a couple now. We go to commercial on the Doctor's sad announcement to Harry that he'll never walk again.

We come back, and now it's three years later. Voyager's in an alien shipyard in the midst of heavy modifications. Via a comm link, Neelix helps Janeway negotiate for some new alien tech that will help against the Borg. The aliens also let slip that there are rumors of an old, no longer used Borg transwarp hub a thousand light years or so from here - Seven confirms that it's possible, and they decide to head off..."I'll bring this crew home no matter what", says Janeway.

Off they go, and we skip ahead a couple of months - Voyager encounters another Borg cube, and with their new tactits and alien tech, they blow it away with relative ease. On their triumph, we cut to comemrcial.

We return and it's 9 months later, and Voyager is at the old Borg transwarp hub. Only, when they get there, it isn't abandoned at all. There are a dozen cubes there, and even Voyager's new weapons and tactics are no match. They're severely damaged, 60 or 70 crew are killed including Tom, and the Doctor's program is wiped out as well. Voyager does, somehow, manage to make it into a transwarp conduit, followed by two cubes. They emerge in the Alpha quadrant, in Earth orbit in fact, Voyager is spit out of the conduit, the bridge is wrecked, everyone's knocked out. And the two cubes follow them out, and the few starfleet ships that are there immediately engage the Borg...

When we next return from commercial, Janeway awakes in a hospital. It's been a month since her return, and the last thing she remembers is the terrible battle with the Borg. Tuvok, the only other survivor from the main cast, is there to give her the complete rundown - only 17 of Voyager's crew survived. And the two Borg cubes took out 25 starships and devastated the Earth, killing half the population, before they were destroyed.

And right here Janeway decides that she can't allow this to stand. She must find a way to go back and fix it.

And from here, the episode can go on pretty much as it did really - with older Janeway getting hold of a time travel device and taking the new tech and tactics back to past Voyager just before they ran into the nebula with the transwarp hub, before things started to go bad...

And that's just off the top of my head...

[Diamond]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Ok, lets turn the direction of this thread around: How would YOU end Voyager? No "I would have shot all the writers six years ago" either!</font>

Easy answer. Keep the first 3/4 of the Voyager finale exactly as written. Then younger Janeway realizes the terrible dangers inherent behind older Janeway's benevolent and well-meaning offer. Younger Janeway rejects older Janeway's offer and technologies. Then she gives a Kirk-esque speech, "we may make mistakes, but they'll be OUR mistakes. Once we start messing up the timeline for selfish purposes, there's no telling where it will end. This is painful, but it's the right thing to do. Now, I'm going out there to fight like hell to get home, and do our best to save as many people as possible. But to do so in an honorable way. Did you ask the older, diseased Tuvok if he wanted you to risk the Federation on his behalf? I just talked to the younger one, and he was willing to take the risk. Unlike you, I will respect his wishes, and honor the risk he is taking on behalf of the Federation. Now get out, and take your devil's bargain with you!"

Voyager heads off into the sunset, still far from home and with adventures ahead of her... but instilled with new hope and determination!

[This message has been edited by Diamond (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Dan Gurden]

anyone know how to get Starkllr a job writing for 'Enterprise'?

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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Sarge]

So Voyager was INSIDE the sphere, armor was down to 6%, they torpedoed the sphere from the inside, and flew out of the wreckage with no obvious damage... Words fail me.

OK, I just made a decision. In my campaign, Voy is just like ST5: a badly written holonovel with very little basis in reality. Who knows, I might even run my players through a couple episodes on the holodeck to see if they can make it any better than what we saw onscreen.

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&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

LUGTrek isn't really dead. Not as long as we remember it.

[Sarge]

Help! I'm trapped in a causality loop!

[This message has been edited by Sarge (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Sarge]

Excuse the mulitiple posts. My server seems a bit wonky today.

[This message has been edited by Sarge (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Don Mappin]

Wow, people are still talking about this?

Man, I’ve moved on with my life!


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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[Max-Q]

A Hypospray killed the Queen and destroyed the Unimatrix 001. That cracks me up!!! Half of Enterprise-E's crew is assimulated and all it took was a hypospray. Oh my.

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[John Raynor]

Y'know, the ease with which Admiral Janeway
infects the Borg bothers me. The Borg have
been in the assimilation business for a long
time, and have encountered quite a few
civilizations with levels of technology which
rival their own. Surely, the Borg aren't
*stupid*. They must know that their peculiar
lifestyle makes them particularly vulnerable
to certain threats, like computer viruses and
nanotechnological weapons. Surely, the Borg
*must* have developed ways to keep such
dangers out of the Collective. For goodness
sake, the Federation has "biofilters" built
into its transporters -- shouldn't the Borg
have something analogous, to keep the
Collective from getting "food poisoning"
from mistakenly assimilating things they
shouldn't?