Last Voyager...Shit for an ending?

[Max-Q]

The producers and writers should have only used the Borg for Scorpion I and II. I just don't find the Janeway character clever enough to defeat the Borg at every turn. As far as the weapons are concerned. The armor and torpedoes could have been developed by another race in the Delta quadrant and the crew of Voyager only obtained the technology.

There was post a few months back, I can't remember who posted it but I thought it would fitting end to Voyager series. Everything in the Endgame happens but with a little longer ending. Once Voyager makes it through the conduit and destroys the sphere. It quickly pans over to a couple of Q's watching the events transpire. One Q turns to other and says "I told you they would make back from the Delta quadrant!!" The second Q turns to first Q "You want to go best 2 out of 3?" First Q "Sure, but let's send Voyager to Gamma quadrant this time." and snaps his fingers a Voyager disappears.


That would the better ending.

[Protius]

They should have paced themselves better. By the end they should have been encountering the Romulans, perhaps whatever main adversary they face. The Borg space should have been here all the Borg were, that 8472 was a fix that should have been an episode in a long string of attempts to cross the space. Afterall, they leave you alone unless you're a threat or of significant technological interest to them.

I only saw one section of the Unicomplex destroyed so that's all I'll consider as having been done. That and the sixth and latest Transwarp Hub keeping the Borg effectively out of the Alpha Quadrant for my fan fiction, rpgs, etc. The Queen has died many times before, that's fine. Now, however the Borg have one major advantage. They didn't just assimilate trans-phasic torpedoes and Regenerative Ablative Armor, but also her entire shuttle. This includes the latest computer advancements, warp propulsion developments, anything that the Admiral left in her database (not much if she was wise), transporter advancements, etc. Not to mention any info they could extract from her mind before the pathogen took hold. Likely not much but perhaps the microcircuit was scanned at least.

It wouldn't be hard for them to "catch up" with the other major powers and regain their position as "adaptive and highly advanced".

[Weyoun11]

Good point. Even though the Federation have the technology other species are now more likely to fall victim to surviving Borg assuming its canon that the Borg survived at all. Smart thinking from two Janeways! Future Janeway could run into Neelix of Borg for example. How'd that make her feel for shaving off some years on her trip to save a handful of lives? Janeway took the easy path for crying out loud. Is this the same Janeway that spat "its never easy" holier-than-thou Prime Directive dogma at Rudy Ransom and nearly sacrificed crewman Noah Lessing in a holodeck just to make that point? Voyager writing material is all over the place it makes it crew hypocritical at times. Perhaps Janeway is actually a non-linear entity from a certain wormhole on another series. What happened to "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, --or the two Janeways in this case? Guys like Dulmer and Lucsly are gonna have their hands full at the DTI to sort the shannigans of Voyager over the years. What a headache. What a joke. The only redemption for Admiral Janeways interference is if all the Borg are gone for good. Does Paramount have an official answer on that one yet? Don't tell me,"I think in such 3-D terms" either. What a cop out...
Good 'ol Voyager...any excuse to pop in several Borg Cubes and blow 'em up with ease . Holy assometric photons Batman!
Even though initially the Borg were just interested in aquiring technology and then would ignore you they seem to be keen on "invading" a technological culture they visited before several times when they do become a threat (ie. two attempts at the Federation).
Oh and Max-Q I totally agree with the other
ending with Voyager poppong in the Gamma Quadrant but circa 2373-75. Then that crew would discover what their fellow Alpha Quadrant brethen had to put up with for two years firsthand...without the advantage of transphasic torpedoes although omnipotent wormhole aliens don't hurt either.

[This message has been edited by Weyoun11 (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Robert Lai]

Let's look at the questions and options involved in creating Endgame.

Who (or what) has the capability to get Voyager home in a single episode?

1. Q. Janeway's pride would never allow her to accept this, particularly as it would be a deal with the devil. Secondly, the viewers would feel cheated to have a deus ex machina pop in and make it all better.

2. The Borg. With their undefined transwarp capability, reaching Earth is a snap. Unfortunately, any Borg installation of that magnitude will be nigh impenetrable. There are thematic problems with this - namely the Borg having a jump point within 1 L.Y. of Earth.

3. Species 8742. There is clearly a parallel relationship between fluidic space and our own continuum. As with the Borg, S8742 is not only hostile, but aggressive, and passage through their space is unacceptable.

4. An entity like the Caretaker. Seeing as how the writers locked themselves out of this option by stating there were only two, and both have been dealt with in the course of the show, this is unlikely. One possibility, though, is that something in the Caretaker's remains (which Janeway may or may not have picked up) might hold some crucial element (i.e., solution has been in your hands all along).

5. As-yet unknown species/race is encountered and they offer the solution to Voyager for a price. However, Janeway would likely view this as a Capt. Ransom/Equinox style problem, and choose (again) to stay in the Delta Quadrant.

6. A wormhole or other spatial phenomenon. This is likely to be the least dramatic and/or exciting path.

Given the above options, how can we make one or more of them possible?

1. Voyager discovers the technology in the wreckage of a ship. This would rule out the Borg (and probably S8742) as they reassimilate important components.

2. Voyager discovers the technology from interaction with a future/parallel/alternate timeline.

3. The Borg offer the technology seemingly free of charge. This is unlikely, as the collective assimilates and does not bargain. (Which must mean that there is some subroutine or process to winnow out low-yield or unproductive behavioral patterns.)

Looking at the above, it's clear the writers had painted themselves into a corner. They didn't really start pushing the drive home until the last couple of seasons, when it should have been a focus from Day One.

Still, it isn't impossible to imagine a less convoluted ending that would fulfill the necessary elements of a successful series finale: bringing the crew home and showing us that everything is fine/life goes on.

The time travel aspect, I feel, was a mistake. I would have found a wormhole more believeable, with conflict stemming from an adversary blocking the direct route. Simple, classic conflict-and-resolution.

If you really wanted time travel, you could complicate matters by having the wormhole exhibit a chronoton signature - depending on when you went through, and at what angle, you could end up in a number of places. Possible futures could be experienced as flash-forwards, etc.

Bob

[Treefrog]

If the new ST series is as bad as Voyager, then Star Trek, as a whole, is in a lot of trouble. Voyager was populated by lousy actors, bad scripts, boring plot lines, and the propensity to stupify the mind.

I believe we should have a moment of silence for the new series, considering that its being created by the same 'individuals' as Voyager.

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"Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war..."
-Chang (ST VI)

[Phantom]

Don't waste the moment...You will probably be better off if you just think of Voy. as the end of Trek. As far as what I have seen the producers aren't listening to the fans and have come up with a crap of an idea just to fill their pockets.

Sorry in advance just have to say this, THERE WAS NO ENTERPRISE IN THAT TIMELINE!!! Ok, so don't keep to continuity in the the new series, but don't blow what has already been written in stone so you slip it by.

[Robert Lai]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
Don't waste the moment...You will probably be better off if you just think of Voy. as the end of Trek. As far as what I have seen the producers aren't listening to the fans and have come up with a crap of an idea just to fill their pockets.</font>

This has always been a danger to the Trek franchise, namely, banking on the built-in audience and raking in the cash before anyone realizes it's garbage.

The only way to express your displeasure is not to watch.

Bob

[Rottwang]

Hmmm, I wonder how John Wayne would have done as Starfleet captain. Too bad he's dead and as far as I know he didn't do sci-fi's but I bet he would have been an interesting choice.

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"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of
their dreams."
--Eleanor Roosevelt

[Aedh Rua]

The best ending to the series of all of them is this:

Voyager is busy fighting the Borg. They decide to use the "interphasic torpedo" to save themselves.

Suddenly, Reg Barclay's voice booms out from nowhere: "Computer, end program!". The entire Voyager set vanishes, to be replaced by a deactivated holodeck, with Barclay and Geordi Laforge standing in the center.

Laforge turns to Barclay: "What's wrong, Reg? It is a good end to the series." "No it isn't", says Barclay. "We've been writing this series for eight years, now, and holodeck users need something more realistic to end it".

Roll credits........

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Slan agat!

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

I've seen the ending twice now, and I have to say that it was the worst ending out of all the StarTreks I've EVER seen. I agree with all the posts about the 7 of 9/Chakotay thing and the fact that once again Janeway endangers billions of lives for selfish reasons.

The writers again destroyed another piece of StarTreks background, first the Cardassians and now the Borg are royally messed up. Bravo.

The show was weak from the beginning, but this ending drives it into the ground. It was soo politically correct, species upon species of psychos(aren't there any normal races out there?), and characters which you can't attach yourself to. Apart from one-Tuvok, i've always liked him, Tim Russ played him well and I give them that.

There are however good points about the finale...not. Originally my father thought they should end with them running into a large telephone pole, rather un startrek like but this is about as close as they will get.
The only part I like was the little ship(Nova-class i thinking) at the bottom of the screen at the ending with a quad-nacelle configuration.

Oh and The Shoveller, Paris saying "Hi Dad, I'm home" would have been excellent.

Rest in Peace Voyager and please...please I beg you do NOT appear ever again...

[The Tatterdemalion King]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos:

The only part I like was the little ship(Nova-class i thinking) at the bottom of the screen at the ending with a quad-nacelle configuration.
</font>

That was the USS Prometheus, which was from another voyager episode. It was designed for battle against the dominion, and could split into 3 parts (kind of stupid, IMHO. I never like spaceships that could split up like that.)

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

Are you sure Huth? It was the very last scene at the bottom right, a rather small ship. I remember the Prometheus as being way bigger. And I agree with you, I don't like them either. Mostly, because three smaller ones have no chance in my opinion against something bigger.(Don't have a warp core on each piece, weaker deflectors, less weapons)And what happens if the middle is destroyed? Can the two other pieces reconnect? Probably not.

[Phantom]

Actually I believe that each "ship" does have a warp core. The design allows for the core to be connected into one large one (when the ship is whole) or 3 smaller ones (when in MVA mode).

[Phantom]

I guess I am in the minority here, I thought the idea of the multi vector assult on the Prometheus was an interesting idea. They have used the concept before in TNG, BoBW when Riker engages the Borg vessel using the battle section and the saucer section. Basically, two starships although one was only capable of impulse still the same idea.

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

Wouldn't that require three dilithium crystals, one for each component? Lotsa resources would go into producing one of these things then.

Also the destruction of one piece will occur far more often then with the other saucer/battle bridge designs, mainly because it seems to be its main form of attack.