CODA Defiant Design Question

[Captain Quirk]

I seem to be making a mistake in designing CODA starships or there is an error in the Defiant Class found on page 52 of Starships. Please help me to identify where I am in error.

(Since I'm new to this, I'm going to step through the starship creation process so you can tell me where I'm making the mistake.)

Size = 5 so I have 65 spaces to work with.
Atmospheric Capability costs me half the size (2.5 spaces) leaving 62.5 spaces.
Life Support is Class 2 which costs 4.5 spaces leaving 58 spaces.
Operations System is also Class 2 and costs 4.5 space (53.5 left).
Class 2 sensors cost 2 spaces leaving 51.5.
The shuttle bay costs 2 spaces leaving 49.5.
The tractor beam costs 1 space leaving 48.5.
The FIG-2 Impulse System costs 4 spaces leaving 44.5
The LF-35 Warp Drive costs 5 spaces leaving 39.5.
The Type XII Pulse Phasers cost 7 each and there are 2 so we now have 22.5 spaces left.
The Mk 75 Torpedo launchers cost 6 each and there are 2 so we now have 13.5 spaces left.
The FSQ deflector shield cost 11 for the base threshold of 2. Since Defiant's shields have a threshold of 4 I spend 2 more for a total of 13 spaces leaving me with .5 spaces.
The Pulse upgrade costs 5 spaces but that is offset by the Design Flaw on the Warp Drive. I still have .5 spaces.
Finally, Ablative armor is an additional trait costing 5 spaces. I'm now at -4.5 spaces. Where did I go wrong?

Also, I can't figure out why Defiant only has 1 standard and 1 emergency transporter. Shouldn't that be 2 of each?

The Phasers have a reliability of C but the chart indicates it should be B.
The Torpedo launcher has a reliability of C but shouldn't it also be B?

I'd sure appreciate help in finding what I've done wrong.

[Tobian]

Ok a couple of things...

I don't have Starships or NG on me right now, so I can't be sure but:

There are no half sizes. Rounded up or down, it will say, but there are not half sizes in either NG or Starships.

The reliability of the weapons, since it is all on the same track (not seperatelly, as phasers and photorps), is the sum OV value, so add your phaser and photon OV values together which (should) give C.

Also I can't remember but what type of ship is the Defiant. Different types of ships have different costs for different components, which is noted underneath each table (heavy, light, fast, etc) - that should be defined in it's description. For example you might make a saving of a -1 per phaser emmitter or photorp - that's EACH emmitter, not the sum total, which might account for the lost space.

There's a good chance there's also a typo, there are a few of those known in Starships

[IceGiant]

Yes, like Tobian said you round in your favor (so usually down). Heavy gives you -1 space cost per phaser. Escorts pay 1 space less for impule engines.

To get the weapon reliability, you add the the phaser and torpedo values together which in this case is 38 which is "C".

And yes it should be 2 standard and 2 cargo transporters.

Hope that helps

[Captain Quirk]

Ah ... that helps! Thank you!

[Space_Cadet]

Wait.. the reliabilty of weapons are the total sum of the OV (both beam and missile weapons)? Cause i thought you separate the beam and missile summations of the OV to have seperate reliablities.

[Tobian]

The seperate OV's are used individually to calculate damage from each system, but they are added together for reliability and 'weapons' has only one damage track in CODA, as the damage tracks are: Weapons, Engines, Shields, OPS, Sensors, Life Support... There isn't a seperate damage track for phasers and photons.

[IceGiant]

Wait.. the reliabilty of weapons are the total sum of the OV (both beam and missile weapons)? Cause i thought you separate the beam and missile summations of the OV to have seperate reliablities.

Nope, you use the seperate OV's for penetration, but combined for reliability. Because the damage tables only account for weapons to be damaged not beam and torpedo just like warp and impulse aren't seperated. See doug's reply in this thread. It's about halfway down.

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...ight=offensive

[Doug Burke]

Nope, you use the seperate OV's for penetration, but combined for reliability. Because the damage tables only account for weapons to be damaged not beam and torpedo just like warp and impulse aren't seperated. See doug's reply in this thread. It's about halfway down.

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...ight=offensive

Wow. I go to post a response and find myself quoted... Kinda cool in a weird way...

[IceGiant]

Wow. I go to post a response and find myself quoted... Kinda cool in a weird way...

Well you are "da man"!!

[Captain Quirk]

What is the rationale behind combining the reliability instead of having separate reliabilities and separate damage tracks? It would seem that one system could be knocked out, or off-line, and the other system still functions.

Tactical Officer: "Captain, we've sustained a hit to our photorp launcher! Photon torpedos are offline!"

Captain: "Dang the torpedos! Fire phasers!"

(OK, I know the expression didn't refer to not being able to use torpedoes but to incoming torpedos.)

[Tobian]

I know what you mean of course, it's something I've run into it in games before, but then there is a limit to how many systems you want to represent in an abstract combat system, otherwise it becomes hugelly complicated!

[Doug Burke]

What is the rationale behind combining the reliability instead of having separate reliabilities and separate damage tracks? It would seem that one system could be knocked out, or off-line, and the other system still functions.

Tactical Officer: "Captain, we've sustained a hit to our photorp launcher! Photon torpedos are offline!"

Captain: "Dang the torpedos! Fire phasers!"

(OK, I know the expression didn't refer to not being able to use torpedoes but to incoming torpedos.)

The rationale is the abstract nature of the combat system. There is one damage track each for propulsion and weapons. I suppose you could separate the tracks, but most of the ship writeups (those done correctly) show the same reliability for warp/impulse and missile/beam weapons...

[Doug Burke]

I'm now at -4.5 spaces. Where did I go wrong?

As someone pointed out, you made two mistakes. Round down unless told otherwise. That saves you 1.5 space. Also, the Defiant, a heavy escort, gets a -1 to each beam weapon's space and a -1 to Impulse egnine space. That's the remaining 3.

Also, I can't figure out why Defiant only has 1 standard and 1 emergency transporter. Shouldn't that be 2 of each?

Because in the show they established it only had one of each. Basically, the amount of transporters given at no charge could probably be listed as "...up to half the size..."

[IceGiant]

And if you go by the DS9 tech manual it actually does have 2 personal transporter pads. So either way is good.

[Captain Quirk]

Does the DS9 Tech Manual have deckplans for the Defiant and for DS9? I couldn't find it in any local bookstores. Amazon.com is asking $72.85 for it! That sounds really expensive to me.