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Thread: Powerplant Question

  1. #1
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    Powerplant Question

    I'm not sure if this question has been raised before, so here it goes.
    I have been searching the Spacedock rules for a powerplant suitable for a Space Stationbut found no satisfying solution.
    DS-9 uses a Fusion power plant, but how are stations build by the Federation powered? Do they use a antimatter-matter reactor for daily powergeneration or dothey use oversized Fusiongenerators?
    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    I think that everywhere size/mass is not one of the limiting factors fusion generators would be used. First, they are safer, you don't have to store anti-matter which could destroy the whole installation in case of a containment breach. Second, although matter/anti-matter-reactors are capable of producing the same amount of energy as fusion reactors of much larger size, running a fusion reactor will be cheaper. The fuel for fusion reactors exists in abundance, whereas anti-matter (usually anti-deuterium) has to be artificially created in a very power-consuming process.

    Besides, DS9 has been built by Cardassians , not Starfleet, and it is powered by a (or several) fusion reactor(s).

  3. #3
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    "Besides, DS9 has been built by Cardassians , not Starfleet, and it is powered by a (or several) fusion reactor(s)."


    I know, but my question was intented twoards Starfleet build Installations and I was not sure that the Federation would use a diffrent Power system for their Stations compared to a Cardassian build Station.
    Several sources indicated that the Cardassians lag behind in different technological fields, so i thought the fedaration would probably something more efficent power source.

  4. #4
    In theory, The Federation has all the best tech locally, however the Klingons have nearly the same warp core design. Everyone uses the same basic impulse drive - based on visual ref. So why wouldn't the Federation and the Union have the same type of starbase power core?

    This fits with my views of engineering "If it's not broke, don't fix it"
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  5. #5
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    It is difficult to say as no real canon information exists about Starbases, however I would likelly say that stations, of Starfleet origins, also likelly use Fusion reactors for a number of reasons...

    1) as was mentioned size.. they are usually huge instalations, and so the size problems of using lots of deuterium is not as much of a concern.

    2) they don't go to warp.. which is the only real reason ships have 'warp reactors'. Yes a warp core is a just a compact Terawatt reactor, not specifically just for warp, but the point is only starships need that much raw power! Shields and weapons do not need to consume main warp power, as they can be run from bateries and fusion reactors just fine (as has been shown in the stories) so a Station simply doesn't need that much power.

    3) It's wasteful. A Starbase cannot fly round to be refueled, so it would make sense to use more commonly available material, such as Hydrogen.. the comonest element in the universe (or indeed Deuterium, which is not so rare as Spiderman 2 implies ) Ships HAVE to have warp reactors or they wouldn't leave their home system within their lifetimes: Antimatter is extremelly eneregy wasteful to produce, but it is a neccessary evil for Starships; Since Starbases don't HAVE to have it I would say they likelly don't!

    4) catastrophic failure... if a station the size of spacedock went up like a blue light in orbit of Earth it would be devastating, the damage would be tremendous, and worse if it was fueled by a warp reactor. Unlike a Starship a Starbase can't move out of the way from planets and other ships, so it makes it extremelly dangerous to have that so close. This is doubly so if it's a ground based instalation! Space combat often takes place in dead space, clear of facilities and other objects for good reason.. you do NOT want a warp core breach to happen near something else.. imagine that happening in a planetary atmosphere!

    Whie DS9 got all sorts of upgrades to it's weapons and shields, it never got an upgrade to it's power systems, so this implies it was sufficient for the station.

    That said some starbases may well have antimatter, for refueling purposes, and perhaps small suplementary warp cores should they need it.. and of course their photon torpedo's need antimatter too!
    Ta Muchly

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the input, now ihave another question, concerning the Design of a small Spacestation (about half the size of a Galaxy Class Starship) How many SU's would a suitable Fusionreactor use up. I would like to use the stats for a similar Warp core and triple its overall mass.

    What do you think?

    Oh, by the way, if i recall the Pilot-film of DS9 right, they moved the Station under its own power to another position toprevent the Cardassians to take control of the wormhole. So even a Spacestation seems to be able to move under some circumstances e.g. keep its current position or beeing relocated in a system.

  7. #7
    Sorry, but that was one of those patent 'Star Fleet Engineer Miracles' O'Brian pulled off using the station keeping thrusters and some sub-space dampening field thingy...it looked cool though.

    Oh before I forget - It's good to see some activity here again!
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  8. #8
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    But DS9 was a Cardassian mining station designed to process ore. I guess the most equivalent structure today would be an oil-rig.

    But I don't think it would be impossible for the Federation to build a starbase with impulse thrusters or even a warp drive if they want to. To me it does look as if the mushroom station that Starfleet uses could have the structural strength needed to be moved.

    As mentioned above, warp drive fuel have a high energy cost and are potentially dangerous. So if there is not a very good reason to move a station between star systems on its own power, I would go for thugs or disassemble/assemble the station to move it. However, considering Starfleets love for versatility, I wouldn't be surprised if they slammed in an impulse drive in all of their stations.

    Just to toss an idea into the heap... According to the Star Trek encyclopedia did Kirk order a preparation for saucer separation on the original Enterprise. So small stations could be built to with that in mind, having 2-3 stardrive sections transporting 100 starbases between location.

  9. #9
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    Stations have manouvering thrusters. They HAVE to because they need to alter their angular momentum, orbital velocity and compensate for intertia imparted to them from other ships.. I.e. a shuttle launches and will impart an 'equal and oposite reaction' back on to the station, which then has to be compensated for via thrusters. It's basic physics

    Thrusters, or 'RCS' (reaction controll system) are esentally Newtonian.. This means they are simple gas exhaust based rockets (much as a space shuttle, or indeed astronaught MMU unit is today,) only with more exotic technologies, such as ION based engines. An Impulse engine is non Newtonian. it utilises a component known as a 'Space time driver coil' which essentially acts as a low level subspace field through with the reactive gasses are vented. This field acts to lower the effective mass of the vessel relative to the output thrust, this giving a much higher efective acceleration and speeds than would normally be possible through newtonian engines! The lower the mass, the less 'effort' (energy put in) that is needed. This is basically what Cheif O'Brien did, he used the stations shields to simulate the reduction in mass effect that is built in to an Impulse engine , allowing a handful of smaller thrusters to have the same effect as a larger Impulse engine and move them at much higher speeds.

    RCS oviously work in the domain of slow relativistic speeds, maybe a few hundred meters a second, Full impulse speed is 74948114.5 meters a second..

    I am not 100% familiar with Spacedock anymore, but can't you just buy Fusion (backup reactors?) which have a relativelly similar output as a warp core, or is enough to power the stations shields and weapons (simultaneously is a big help hehe) That should determine the SU's without working on some sort of multiplier kludge?

    There's nothing to sa a Station can't have Impulse engines, or maybe even warp drive, but then it isn't really a station anymore. Certainly a base the size you're talking about could easilly be towed by a Tug vessel (which it might even have aboard it's complement of vessels!) But once it's in place why does it normally need to move that far within a system?! DS9 was a special case!
    Ta Muchly

  10. #10
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    I have taken a look at the Spacedock rules again, but all I found was that the biggest Impulsengine available nettet only 64 power/round at a cost of 40 SU and auxilliary Powergenerators generate 5 Power/round and cost 3 SU.

    At least it should be possible to build a bigger primary powersystem. While it states here that this is meant for aditional fusionpowerplants. You could use the following formula:

    (Over all Power needed/5)*3=SU's needed

    Other Auxiliary Systems could be and should be installed to supplement the main powersystem, which could be splitt up in two or three seperate reactors.

  11. #11
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    Hmm now it's getting complicated !

    Well for one thing there does not need to be a power 'core' There is nothing to stop you from having several of the things distributed round the station; In fact it's a distinct advantage because it makes them harder to target, and if one of them fails you have a couple spare that can take the load. A single core is a distinct liability, hence all starships have more than one power source, though only one capable of generating enough power to go to warp!

    In the system backup generators seem to take up an inordinate ammount of space, moreso than impulse engines, which doesnt make too much sense since Impulse Engines also have... engines, these are just reactors! You may need to fudge the system and cheapen the SU cst of a couple of bigger impulse reactors (by removing the engine part) I would reacon by about 30% and use those as the basis for a cople of twinned power plants.

    PS: What is the function of the station, and how much power does it actually need!
    Ta Muchly

  12. #12
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    There have been two fan-based station power rules.

    Fusion Reactor (SU's) Power
    Class 20 (100) <200>
    Class 21 (105) <210>
    Class 22 (110) <220>
    Class 23 (115) <230>
    Class 24 (120) <240>
    Class 25 (125) <250>
    Class 26 (130) <260>
    Class 27 (135) <270>
    Class 28 (140) <280>
    Class 29 (145) <290>
    Class 30 (150) <300>

    from Book One: The Cardassians. Available on Owen's MemoryICON.
    Fusion Reactor (SU's) Power
    Class 2/sA (10) <20-29>
    Class 3/sB (20) <30-39>
    Class 4/sC (30) <40-49>
    Class 5/sD (40) <50-59>
    Class 6/sE (50) <60-69>
    Class 7/sF (60) <70-79>
    Class 8/sG (70) <80-89>
    Class 9/sH (80) <90-99>
    Class 10/A (100) <200-224>
    Class 11/B (110) <225-249>
    Class 12/C (120) <250-274>
    Class 13/D (130) <275-299>
    Class 14/E (140) <300-324>
    Class 15/F (150) <325-349>
    Class 16/G (160) <350-374>
    Class 17/H (170) <375-399>
    Class 18/I (180) <400-424>
    Class 19/K (190) <425-449>
    Class 20/L (200) <450-474>
    Class 21/lA (250) <570-599>
    Class 22/lB (260) <600-629>
    Class 23/lC (270) <630-659>
    Class 24/lD (280) <660-699>
    Class 25/lE (290) <700-729>
    Class 26/xA (350) <740-779>
    Class 27/xB (360) <780-819>
    Class 28/xC (370) <820-869>
    Class 29/xD (380) <870-909>
    Class 30/xE (390) <910-939>

    from a post by Michael Brinkhues on 7.11.2001
    Last edited by redwood973; 07-15-2005 at 12:51 PM.
    Steven "redwood973" Wood

    "Man does not fail. He gives up trying."

  13. #13
    Rather than putting all this work in to a subject that has already been finished
    Might I suggest going over to Owen's 'Memory Icon' site and down loading the Cardassian soursebook part 1, the side bars at the end of the book cover 'station fusion reactors, ship portage, and mercantile facilities plus hint and tips on addapting existing current SD rules in to a star-base like object.
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  14. #14
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    What is the function of the station, and how much power does it actually need

    The planned function is purely scientific, that means only basic weapons to repell raiders and extensive sensorsystems and excellent lab facillities. The station is located near Galor IV and was originally build to monitor a nearby field of subspace distortions. The Station is to small to provide any service to starships or commerce and the distortions render warp travel dangerous. Only vessels of size 4 or smaller may dock with the station. After the Borg made their first appearance in Federation space and all evidence that could be had after the cubes destruction was moved to the planetary annex on Galor IV, Starfleet Intel decided to create a haven where the most sensitive and promissing work could be performed. Some of the best cyberneticists and Scientists work here to uncover the secrets of the Borg.
    The most closly guarded secret are four living Borg drones suspended in stasis since the destruction of the cube. The delicate fact is that two of the drones are former Starfleet personell, and while the Implants could be removed and the people return to a normal life as Picard did, SI decided to leave these unfortunates to their fate in order to closly monitor the funtions of the implants on living subjects.
    On one night shift a unwitting scientist repairs a Communication nodeand reestablishes contact with the Borg Collective. The Drones are awakend and are ordered to assess the situation. The Drones come to the conclusion to assimilate the station and the Merced Class Starship designated to provide external security.
    The players ship is designated to unscrew the situation. (I have not yet decided about any further details, but the simplest solution is to destroy the Communications system that connects the drones and all assimilated scientists with the Collective)

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the tip phoenix,
    I had the sourcebook downloaded already, but these gems completly eluded me

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