NCC-1000 Stts (FASA STCS)

[Meteo]

Greetings,
I have decided to stat out ships from the Ships of the Line 2006 Calendar
for the starship tac game made by fasa.

The 1st one is the odd, suspiciously NX-ish Pre-TOS Star Flt Vessel

Name: 1000th Mile Class Cruiser
Launched: 2203
Class: III
Cont . Computer Type: L-9
Computr Mass: 230
Superstructure : 17
Mass: 21,059


Crew: 143
Passengers: 40
Shuttlecraft: 4

MPR: 2/1
Warp Drive Type: FW-6A
Number: 2
Power Provided: 6 each
Cruisi ng Spd: Warp 4
Max Spd : Warp 6
Stress Chart: P/P
Mass: 3300
Superstructure: 0.4/0.8 (Single/Tandem; Tandem in this case)
Sublight Engine Type: EID
Power Provided: 2
Mass: 95
Superstructure: 0.1

Lasers: FL-X4
Number: 105
Firing arcs: 3f, 1p, 1s
Firing Chart: SF
Max. Pwr: 2
Mass: 325 Each
Superstructure: 0.5 each

Atomic Missiles: FN- 5
Number: 1
Firing Arc: Fwd
Firing Chart: D
Power to Arm: 2
DAMage: 5
Mass: 310
Superstructure: 1.4

armor: FAE
Protection: 3
Mass: 134 per facing
Superstructure: 0.4

Commissioning Record

NCC-1000 1000th Mile
NCC-1001 Canary Islands
NCC-1008 Bering Bridge
NCC-1009 Northshire
NCC-1010 Southshire
NCC-1013 Northampton
NCC-1078 Southampon

Background:
The 1000th Mile Class was the first Warp 6 vessel to be successfully launched
by Starfleet. Unlike previous classes, it had a saucer with stardrive elements
built into it, including a rear shuttlebay at th rear.: thy were very capable
exploration vessels, and were often used to transport diplomats.

Firing Chart (Sublight):

Rng SA SB SC SD SE SF SG SH
1 1-4 1-5 1-6 1-7 1-8 1-9 1-10 1-10
2 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 1-4 1-5 1-6

Armor Rules;{
Armor absorbs weapon hits before they hit internals. For every point of
damage inflicted on the ship in an armored facing, subtract 1 point of
armor permanently from that facing. Armor cannot be repaired unless
at a station, out of the game.
to

[Meteo]

Come on maties... Can anyone share any opinions on this?

[TFVanguard]

Come on maties... Can anyone share any opinions on this?

Honestly, I think you just hit the 'FASA.. yeah.. we remember /something/ about that' sticking point. A lot of people just dont remember how the numbers work for FASA, or have a baseline comparison.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Honestly, I think you just hit the 'FASA.. yeah.. we remember /something/ about that' sticking point. A lot of people just dont remember how the numbers work for FASA, or have a baseline comparison.

Or have no bloody clue. I've looked at it, but most pre-95 game systems i just cannot grok.

[Identity Crisis]

You may have more luck on the The FASA Star Trek Universe E-group -
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/...iverseE-group/

Lots of people very dedicated to the FASA game.

[UFC465537]

You may have more luck on the The FASA Star Trek Universe E-group -
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/...iverseE-group/

Lots of people very dedicated to the FASA game.

I must agree, that's probably a better forum for feedback. I'm a FASA guy, myself, but that's me. I think it's fine, but I don't think there's much ENT era ship material to compare it to. I think the Yahoo FASA group has toyed with the armor issue (sadly I haven't been keeping up), and maybe they might be able to give you better feedback on that. Me, I always chaulked up armor to extra superstructure. I'm not even certain if they've even begun a ENT era construction manual project. Maybe you could get in on the ground floor with that!

[Meteo]

Heh... Actually, I hate ENT. the ships and tech look too advanced to me (except
t he Andorian ship and the spatial torpedoes, those genuinely ar pretty good
from an accuracy standpoint), and I usually accept stuff from the Starfleet Museum
and Vintage Starshps .
I've also finished a number of Pre-TOS systems which are here on the forum,
and I still have a lot more to complete.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Heh... Actually, I hate ENT. the ships and tech look too advanced to me (except
t he Andorian ship and the spatial torpedoes, those genuinely ar pretty good
from an accuracy standpoint), and I usually accept stuff from the Starfleet Museum
and Vintage Starshps .
I've also finished a number of Pre-TOS systems which are here on the forum,
and I still have a lot more to complete.

I, for one, am very glad that the nx class is not a giant potato.

[Meteo]

Ah, at least the starfleet museum ships LOOK primitive compared to the NX and
many E NT ships, when compared to the Constituton.
Also, I'm gonna make some ENT systems, for those who want to f*** around
with ENT ships, and more non-ENT systems for the three other gamers
who don't like ENT.s

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Ah, at least the starfleet museum ships LOOK primitive compared to the NX and
many E NT ships, when compared to the Constituton.
Also, I'm gonna make some ENT systems, for those who want to f*** around
with ENT ships, and more non-ENT systems for the three other gamers
who don't like ENT.s

Primitive doesn't mean "looks like ass."

[LUGTrekGM]

Well, I'm an old FASA Trek ref, of about a decade's time, before I started running LUG.

You asked for opinions, here's mine.

I assume you are using Starship construction Manual v 2.0.

One point as to the armor. It is my gut feeling that with 9 on each facing you are giving the ship way more defense that the era would seem to support.

With your missiles taking power: 2 damage 5, you are saying it will take 2 direct hits to any facing with a nuclear weapon, before it blows the armor off, then it will just barely inflict one remaining point.

I assume you are not using the critical hits rules from stardate magazine, either.

from my experience, I'd suggest giving the armor something like 3 or 4 points, maximum. Enough to stop a light phaser, but a direct hit with a bomb will melt off the hull, and do that one point of damage.

Otherwise, you are having armor be more effective than shields, so much so that how come the future ships do not have both armor AND shields?

If it is a case of okay, we put on this armor and it only stops three points of kinetic damage worth one time, vs. a shield that will stop 4 or 5 points multiple times, recharging as we go, then I can see it, how the tech would develop.

As I recall, even a reliant/miranda class full power can cough up 20 points per facing, and perhaps not power all facings, at that.

With all around armor, you are gonna have some weird tactics, especially if you have 9 pts of defense, where a ship captain is gonna turn facing to prsent undamaged armor. I have seen too much of that in Battletech Assault 'Mechs, already.

I think armor should be there to reduce the blow a lot, but it won't be able to stop it. Thus shields were used and invented, in later eras.

another approach is the idea that since a shield deflects from an incoming arc, from any angle, any incoming fire always hits the dshield that that arc bears on.

With armor, it will be spots all over the hull, with it not being likely (in my mind) that any one shot will regularly strike the same place.

In such case, instead of making armor defend vs 9 and then be blown away, as you have, make it perhaps 1 (or 2 points if you want to be somewhat excessive) points of damage reduced from any incoming fire, on any phase.

SO that in an extended battle, you might get a few more hits, but it will stop 1 or 2 points per hit, and you thus do not need an armor facing track, just reduce 1 or 2 (whichever you choose) per phase, or per hit.

A hit on a "shield generator" result would perhaps mean all armor shredded / ablated, thus no future reduction after that until you go to a starbase.

I'll take an in depth look at your suggested stats later tonight, with my Construction Manual, and more input.

PS thanks for keeping FASA Trek Alive. In it's day it was my favorite game system, by far.

[Meteo]

Primitive means "look less capable than the F***ing Constitution", in the case
of pre-os craft.

And LUGTrekGM, Thank you for the critisism. I will revise the armor.

[LUGTrekGM]

and I agree on the NX looks like an Akira, more advanced than the TOS Consititution Class.

It should look less technologically advanced, exactly.

Maybe the lines not so rounded, warp nacelles more primitive, etc, not as "Sleek".

I like a lot of the work they are doing at Starship Design Bureau, I think it is called.

kind of like the Biplane, related to the P-51 Mustang, related to the F-86 super sabre, related to F-14 Tomcat, related to Stealth Fighter.

That kind of progression should be visible, as we see it in the TOS > NG > FILMS > DS9 > VOYAGER.

WTF Happened with "Enterprise?" They tossed Canon out the window, and said Pfft, the fans don't know what they want.

So, I am not being critical of it, per se, just that I wouldn't give it nine points if the maximum shield output is 10 points at full power for the FSA, with the Class III Size ship you have.

Construction Manual says (for lack of a better reference) FSA Was developed on Stardate 1/79, as an outgrowith of navigational deflectors, with something called a phase shift transformer.

Phasers were not to appear until 15 years later, with the FH-1.

Also, I like the way FASA did the Max Shield Power Chart on page 46 of the 2nd Edition Construction manual. I really like dthat book, when it came out, and it might not be the best system out there, but it served me and my groups well for many years.

It seems FSA was able to provide even 1 pt of shield defense to ships up to Class X. After that, it's covering too much area with the low tech shield generator to do much, if anything. Averaging the whole chart per size (not sure if that is a valid approach, or not, but what the hell) We get about 7 or 8 pts of protection at full power for the FSA, per ship.

Since this is theoretically good for three phases, that's about 21 points per facing per combat round, of defense, at full power.

Even with the crappy ratio of 1/1 for FSA, it's still at 10 points of output for 10 points of imput power, pretty good.

The real problem that I see is that at size X Ship, you will only get a max shieeld level of 1, and can only put in 1 point.

So for a very large ship, armor of say, 9 pt defense is 9 times more effective than the FSA shield. Though, granted it'd be tons and tons of armor.

But, along that line of thinking, say you had 1 armor point of defense per phase, instead of a hard coded 9 points with some kind of boxes of reduction till gone system.

With the single point, (if you got hit three times in a round) is good for three defense per round, for any ship, up to class X.

With the FSA development, at least for class X, it's allowing you to toss out one power point from the engines and get 1 point of defense, with no weight, other than the shield generator.

And for your class III, FSA delivers up to 10 points, for 10 power, but it can still do 1 point, for one power, same as Class X ships.

Anyway, all of this boils down to perhaps 1 or 2 points of defense for armor (2 being maximum I'd think).

With any of the lasers FASA suggests were available for the period, with max power to the weapon of 2 points, you will blow off the armor equally 2 for 2 at long range, on the average, and at medium or close range you will get in for:

1 point wirth the + 1 dam mod for med range, p. 47.
and at close get in with 2 points, with the +2 dam mod for range, from page 47.

Even the most basic accelerator cannon (I guess it's like a railgun, right?) is gonna do 8 points, which is a lot. But I've seen a block of steel hit with a lexan penetrator. Cancel christmas.

Do my gut feeling was that it should be 1 or 2 points for ablative armor.

Looking at what FASA has set up, for the period, all things being equal, I'd still do it that way, because then you got the same effect of abaltion per round, wherever it hits, with a lucky hit to "Shield Gen" meaning "The rest is going in, it';s all stripped off, or some kind of structural weakening of the armor or it's mountings, or whatever.

Since it is ablative, it will need to be replaced, which seems to me it's kind of modeled on reactive armor, just without the explosive force that reactive tank armor has. But still seems to me like it will need to be bolted on, or somehow fastened.

Anyway, this was fun to get back to those days of yesteryear. It was nice to have a chance to break out my old, hoary, but still beloved FASA from storage to participate in this thread.

I'm interested to see what you finally decide on.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Primitive means "look less capable than the F***ing Constitution", in the case
of pre-os craft.

"Less capable?" : P

[Meteo]

I already altered the armor. It's 3 points tht cover all facings and block 3 points of
damage before the ship takes internal damage. And that's it . They don't grow
back after that hit.

And I tried making a Pre-TOS ship with the FASA-produced systems a couple times.
It doesn't really work too well. The systems were only for 2240s-2290s ships,
and a handful of 2230 s designs as well. Ether go with Vintage Starships stuff or
use my Pre-TOS Systems (Incomplete as of now)

And, Accelerator Cannons are wpns which put a nuke through a special energizing process before shooting them. It's a step up from launching a missile from a rack
and do nothing special to th nuke.


And Huth, I ' m talking about ships that can move at warp 4, have atomic missiles,
lasers, and have armor that will get blown off in a volley and can't get repaired
until at a starbase. Blocky piece s of crap, not ships that resembl e TMP ships with
phaser-like beam weapons and photon torpedoes with a different name.

Those are the REAL Pre-tos ships...