"In My Makers Image" Scenario

[BouncyCaitian]

*bump*

[kridenow]

(Missed the opportunities to come back and read the thread, sorry)

I don't understand how the player crew is supposed to go close to the wreck without being detected.
Their ship is supposed to sneak close enough to beam the players just out of the wreck, and be still out of sight ? (as directly inside is impossible : Beaming inside the hull is out of the question as radiation, while not lethal, renders the transporter, risky at best, deadly at worst)
So, I suppose the player ship must be able to position itself at transporter range while being still "undercover" and undetected.
The surroundings of the wreck might be useful to know there. Empty space sounds unlikely. Maybe the "accident" happened close to stellar bodies ?



The players could attempt First Contact, but given the nervousness of the recon team, this could be also bad, as the Locals have had absolutely NO xeno-contact previously
Well... That's the purpose of First Contact, to deal with people who had absolutely no xeno-contacts, no ?
I suppose Starfleet may have standards procedure to initiate First Contact with paranoid cultures ?

The players might need to be reminded that the Locals still appear to be pre-warp civilization, therefore FC is proscribed.
There I suppose it will depend of your game, players and GM. From a certain point of view, a contact was already established, even if unvoluntary.

Anyway, this civilization is now already aware of the presence of "aliens", whatever the player might do (save maybe erasing all records if the event wasn't yet broadcasted and recent, which can also be an interesting idea).
If the wreck is left, there might be technical salvage being done, changing the science development of the civilization.

In other words, some damage was already done and players won't be able to do anything to counter this.

So, the only major concern is the wreck to prevent more damage.


Also free floating hydrogen fuel from the alien starship makes the use of phasers or other energy based weapons a suicidal maneuver.
I am under the impression the civilization is identified as space-going but still limited to its own solar system.
My question is now : do the local have any form of weaponry able to blast the player ship ? (their own hydrogen emissions will probably prevent them to use energy weapons as well).
If they are not able to breach the screens, why not coming close, openly, use tractor beam and tug the wreck away ?
There can be different way to intimidate the locals. Vaporize stellar bodies, satellites etc... Show them your phasers will slice through their ships easily.

At worst, the locals may probably able to blast the wreck. Good. Actually, when you tugged it far enough to destroy it without harming the locals, you can even do it yourself and warp away.

What is going to be bad there ?
The civilization already knows there are at least one other culture able to cross interstellar distances. You show them a new ship design, you show them you have good weapons.
But, at the end, they won't get the wreck.
So you just add more myths and speculation but leave no actual facts to work on.

Before, the locals could have say :
- there are *others* living in distant solar systems we think
You just add :
- and they have damn impressive weapons !

(more to come)

[Tobian]

I think it's quite an interesting situation and there are a few things you are missing the oviousness:

The civilisation doesn't have Subspace technology.. This means they don't comprehend subspace physics and don't have access to extremelly long range sensing equiptment: This is like saying "Why can't you detect a Starfleet vessel in orbit of Jupiter, using the hubble space telescope" - it's just not really possible! They knew where to find the wreck because of flightplans and emergency beacon triangulation etc.. that's not the same as typical starfleet *look at a nice picture* sensors, which work several AU away! In this sense, it wouldn't be hard for a Starfleet vessel to sit on the edge of it's 'short range' sensor resolution, with some basic shielding, and be more or less 'visibly' invisible to that culture. If they have gravity technology, they probably have highly sensitive gravity detectors, to make sure they don't pilot into asteroids etc, but Starfleet vessels could shield themselves from those detections, and again, a Federation vessel doesn't have the mass of an asteroid!

Depending on the range of this civilisations optical sensors starfleet only needs to 'cloak' it's energy signatures and they would be effectivelly cloaked within a certain range!

It has to be noted, if this species used highly distorted regions of spacetime, using polarized gravity distortion rings, then that would distort the flightplan of the Starfleet vessel towards it.. it may have been that it hit it directly as much because the two ships were pulled together as they happened to cross near each other. Massive structural failure could well have disabled self destruct subroutines (that computer core(s) might have been vapourised!) and if enough of the ship was lost to space decompression would have taken care of most of the crew, especially in the TOS era, where they don't stow emergency depresurisation suits in the coridoor walls (as they do in the TNG timeframe) and emergency forcefield technology is not so refined.

[kridenow]

I think it's quite an interesting situation and there are a few things you are missing the oviousness

No I don't. It's not *that* obvious for everyone (me here).

The Star Trek technology isn't what I know, and like, the most.
Your explanations sound good and that's actually that kind of posssibilities I was looking for when asking.
I could disagree with some of your explanations/speculations but it's a game, not an astrophysic course so they seem very correct, anyway.

A civilization starting to recover a strange wreck and possibly waiting for another alien vessel to show could be a bit more cautious at looking space right now than just the usual, routinely, space scans and SETI-like programs.
The possibility of a rescue alien vessel is present in BouncyCaitian descriptions to explain why local explorers will be armed on the wreck. So I suppose they would be carefully checking what is incoming in their solar system during to recovery operations, at least.

This may be a history-shaking discovery for a pre-warp culture. I bet every local amateur and professionnal astronomers would turn to look at space during months, if not years, after the event. Just imagine how mankind would be focused on space if it was announced we found a space wreck in lunar orbit.
So, here also comes the question of secrecy. If the wreck wasn't publically made known (if it's a relatively paranoid civilization it may happen), the chance of being discovered decrease as the resources used to scan spaces are more limited (probably no or few civilian watching, yet).
Which can give a variation to the story : recover the wreck, go away and delete data before leaving.

Pierre

[Tobian]

Also some good points, and to be honest it's better not to sit on suppositions/theories/ideas because if you think you have a point, put it out to the community: You may well find that your players ask such questions during play, so it's better to try and partially iron out the kinks in the game before you start. I like to at least understand what I am talking about when I am running the game: That way I can come up with answers on the fly! Of course players always find loopholes, it's their job too

Ok Here's a supposition for you, with regards to remote sensing: if a starship, the size of a Constituton class, came into the edge of our solar system - somewhere about the orbital radius of pluto... Not only would light from that area take hours to actually reach us (33-35 ! would we be able to see it with.. say.. the hubble space telescope? I doubt it, while small, Pluto is still planet sized, and it is barelly visible. Those are the best 'sensors' we have available to us NOW.. Startrek level technology could detect life signs from that far away, and work out what they were! That is the singular difference, and it points out the contrast in technology levels between then and now!

That said exploration vessels nearby to the wreck would of course clearly see a space vessel near to them, but Starfleet vessels should be able to detect them WAY before that!

[Alex]

I'm still not sure if Bouncy meant TOS or TNG era. The post said TOS+ but it also named a ship class from TNG. That all effects the technology discussions.

TOS had repeated contact with less developed worlds, including 1960s Earth. They used the explanation that their navigational deflector and shields would divert radar so as to keep the ship undetected for some time (hours to days in 1960s technology, much more limited in 1980s technology). They also remained undetected by more advanced worlds such as the world of "Bread and Circuses". However, those were cases of civilizations that were limited to their home planet and had not filled space with vessels and probes. This world Bouncy created seems more advanced. I think they would be more likely to detect TOS era vessels within their solar system...at least within transporter range (15,000km)! I would wager that it would even be easy to detect a ship within phaser range (300,000km).

As to just going brute force, sweeping in, stealing the ship and destroying it in an impressive show of force. This is more the Klingon way, not the Starfleet way. Such acts may or may not be against regulations, but they are definitely contrary to the moral message of the shows. Such an act would, if I were running the game, would tramatize the fledgling civilization and show it that powerful, dangerous, and unilateral aliens are running around the local part of the galaxy. They would then become militant, possibly even co-opting freedom of its citizens, and focus on development of war arts. When they conduct warp flight, it will be with the most agressive, militarily focused aims and leadership. This is not the outcome the Federation wants.

1. It would be helpful to know the intended tech level (TOS vs TNG), although we can each modify to suit our own campaigns.
2. It would be helpful to know the level of exploration and colonization the alien civilization has done in their solar system. How much military traffic is there? How much civilian (commercial/industrial) traffic is there? And where in the system did the accident happen? If the Starfleet vessel is in the middle of a crowded spacelane, that requires a different solution than if the vessel is near an industrial station on a distant moon than if the vessel is in open space far from any regular traffic.
3. When will we find out what really happened to cause the ships to fuse together, and whether this will be a danger to the player's vessel as well?

[BouncyCaitian]

I do apologize for the delays, but I've had unexpected medical problems popping up (The Big C is back). I will attempt to get more information on this done this week, assuming my doctors will let me.

As an answer to the question os what Era this is, the Scenario can be used for Era from 2265+. I've tried designing it as an FC/mystery scenario to keep the players engaged in some of the basic themes from Star Trek while keeping the tension of possible violence there if they screw up. First Contacts are delicate things and I'm writing this scenario to give the players and GM a lot of options on how to handle it.

Technical write ups on the Xeno's are forthcoming.

[kridenow]

if a starship, the size of a Constituton class, came into the edge of our solar system - somewhere about the orbital radius of pluto... Not only would light from that area take hours to actually reach us (33-35 ! would we be able to see it with.. say.. the hubble space telescope?

Yes I agree.

But does it mean the Starfleet ship is in transporter range, being that far ?
I wasn't supposing the ship would be seen/detected as soon as it enters the solar system but coming close enough to use transporters to beam the crew just outside the wreck looks problematic to me, at least if the ship doesn't want to be seen.

Entering the solar system, picking comms, scanning and evaluating the situation, when being really distant, is not a problem to me.

But when it comes the ship must be in transporter range of the wreck, I am just asking how it can do that without being detected as it sounded it is what the story supposes.

Maybe can we imagine there is a delay before the limited space technology of the locals will discover the Starfleet ship ? It will be discovered sooner or later. Now the crew just have to solve the problem in a matter of hours, as discovery is a very probable thing. It adds some stress to the situation.
The presence of stellar bodies might help to conceal the PC ship a bit longer.

As to just going brute force, sweeping in, stealing the ship and destroying it in an impressive show of force. This is more the Klingon way, not the Starfleet way. Such acts may or may not be against regulations, but they are definitely contrary to the moral message of the shows

Yes... no.
Yes because I agree Starfleet generally use more peaceful ways, even if more complicated.
No because there is no morals here. You are destroying a wreck that must not be left there.
Actually, the responsability of avoiding more technological contamination and distorting the evolution of a prewarp specie might outweight the mere responsability of destroying a wreck in front of the locals who, anyway, already know you exist.

I have no problem to imagine a Starfleet ship doing some fireworks by vaporating a stellar body just to impress and get enough time to tug the wreck away.
Then, destroying the wreck by using photon torpedos or by setting autodestruction, it will make a big boom anyway.

Actually I am looking for a way to prevent players to use such an easy solution.
Maybe your players won't be using it in any case. Maybe others will give it a try more easily.
And I wouldn't have to tell my players "hu... don't do that, it's contrary to the shows spirit".
Leaving a wreck to a prewarp civilization is also somewhat contrary to the shows. I didn't mean "blasting and killing people and going away with an evil laughter".

Autodestruction might even be more problematic as when the wreck detonates, it can kill locals still around (or inside the wreck). So, even with a sneakier solution, you would still have to be sure noone will be hurt/killed around.
How can you force the locals to move away ?
So, tugging the wreck to destroy it in a safer place sounds wiser to me.




When I am asking how the author of the story imagine the scenario and looking for ideas, it's not to prove something is wrong or the story won't work at all.
I am just browsing the possible options when facing such a situation. I believe I understand what is intended for the story and I like the idea.

Pierre

[Tobian]

Hmm this is a complicated problem, but it should not be simple for the players to resolve.

This civilisation is technically not a pre-warp culture - their technology uses alternate means to provide faster than light travel, but it still does so. So in this sense Starfleet is not specifically mandated to cover up it's existence. Also the culture is more than sophisticated enough to have realised and re-transmitted information on this wreck: the damage as been done, it is really now the responsibility of Starfleet to minimise the damage, indirectly it was their fault: First contact, in a way, has occured! Simply blowing up the ship would not solve anything, and in many ways would make it worse! The ship doesn't have to show up and beam things left right and centre: they have all the evidence they need, and lots of information has been relayed back home already!

There are a number of counterpoints and ballances which need to be thought through.. Is this information in the public domain, or just in the hands of a military and or government: Will possesing this information and or technology (which they will do soon enough) alter the political makeup of the planet? For example, if they penetrate the ship, steal some technology and develop and backwards engineer it, that political group will have enormous advantages, and it could destabalise the whole planet. even if it's in the public domain, the governments will struggle to controll the flow of information: those who are powerful want to remain so!

If the Federation decides it doesn't want the aliens to posess the technology, they have a major problem. For example, if they simply destroy the ship, as cleanly as they like.. how will the aliens view this? Will they assume the ship had a secret agenda, maybe invasion, or there was something on that ship they didn't want them to see (which is of course true, but the point is without seeing they don't know what so their imagination will run wild!). This will spark paranoia and distrust ! What is worse.. if the aliens actually did get some technology, and the above happens, then they will be paranoid, afraid AND posessing weapons of incredible power: That could be devastating, especially because they didn't earn the technolgy so they don't understand it's ramifications and impact. You could liken this to giving Napoleon the H-bomb.. he won't understand the science, or the damage he can cause, he just knows it's a formidable weapon which can make him win! There is an episode of Voyager which deals with that: Where the aliens uncover an earh probe, learn how to make antimatter and prompty destroy their atmosphere, nearly destroying themselves! Don't forget also: They might be 'primative' in some areas, but they are not weak: Angered, they could still represent a considerable security risk to the Federation.. Dropping out of a 'wormhole' is a phenomenal tactical advantage (giving you the ability to appear without detection) and if they analyse both vessels flight logs they may realise that the gravitational curve of the Tanhauser gate aperture opening drew in the warp ship.. that is a means to destroy ships, if suicidal!

Proably the best solution (depending on what has happened) is to be very cautious, but try and work with the governments involved. I'm thinking (though it's very TNG it might work to slow the damage) the TNG episode 'First Contact' Picard decided to contact the malcorian government and work with them, explaining to them who they were and why there were there, and hope they welcome him. It's a big risk, and they should recognise that, the crew are putting themselves at their mercy (albeit they could just beam out )

It's going to depend largelly on your troupes style of play, as to how they deal with it, but assuming that the aliens are stupid and without tactical advanatage would be foolish.. they need to think through their actions carefully!

[kridenow]

Hmm this is a complicated problem, but it should not be simple for the players to resolve.

I agree and that is what I find the most interesting.

This civilisation is technically not a pre-warp culture

If they aren't pre-warp by Federation Standards, a First Contact procedure can be started. It can be dangerous but that's a solution.
Indeed "warp ability" must there be understood by "any FTL travel ability".

However, sneaking into the wreck may destroy any attempt to establish a peaceful contact. And succeeding to snatch the wreck would probably damage any relationship.

The wreck, there, becomes a barckground element and no longer the central point.

Simply blowing up the ship would not solve anything, and in many ways would make it worse! The ship doesn't have to show up and beam things left right and centre: they have all the evidence they need, and lots of information has been relayed back home already!

There I suppose it depends how far the wreck was analyzed.
Because blowing the wreck solves one thing : no more technological data transferred to a culture that shouldn't have it.

Of course, such a direct action will have consequences, as well as leaving the wreck being reverse-engineered or simply some of the functionning tech being used.
The tech and social consequences are difficult to balance.

For example, as you say : "if they [The Federtion] simply destroy the ship, as cleanly as they like.. how will the aliens view this? Will they assume the ship had a secret agenda, maybe invasion, or there was something on that ship they didn't want them to see"

Whatever the solution choosed, the social consequences are probably impossible to evaluate by the arriving PC crew.
Revealing themselves with gifts and sweet words can also be seen as an attempt to conceal a hidden agenda ! After all, the same civilization already sent a ship without trying a formal contact before. "They" must be only coming to "us" now because their sneaky first attempt failed !

Proably the best solution (depending on what has happened) is to be very cautious, but try and work with the governments involved. I'm thinking (though it's very TNG it might work to slow the damage) the TNG episode 'First Contact' Picard decided to contact the malcorian government and work with them, explaining to them who they were and why there were there, and hope they welcome him. It's a big risk, and they should recognise that, the crew are putting themselves at their mercy (albeit they could just beam out )

Yes, trying to solve the situation when dealing to a balkanized world might be very interesting.
The PC could have to choose who to talk to. Find the wisest (as far as possible) leaders ? Which may sound contradictory to the Federation policy, starting by favoring one (or more) planetary government over the others ? Or treating with them equally, to the risk of destabilizing the whole world ?

Pierre

[Tobian]

I think that no matter what happens the scene of the wreck will prove to be the flash point and centrepiece to the whole show.. it is what caused the whole thing, and will change the direction of the story: It's not going to be marginalised, it can't be bypassed!

i think perhaps when dealing with Balkanised planets Starfleet would probably simply opt to let THEM chose someone as a rerpresentitive, rather than chose themselves! I severelly doubt they would pick sides!

[Alex]

Did I miss a post? When was it clearly stated the aliens have an alternate FTL? Or that they utilize controlled wormholes (a tech that TNG scientists still dream about and fail to achieve)? I thought they had some prototype propulsion test go wrong, yes, but they do not have a proven or sustainable interstellar access, which is what I use to define "pre-warp". If they can't conduct affairs with a civilization in another star system without aid, they are "pre-warp". Any reliable, reusable FTL vessel would validate them as interstellar travellers and out of the PD cloak of protection. wormholes and teleportation would also count, as would a dozen other technologies. But I don't remember reading anything by Bouncy stating they have left their solar system or travelled faster than light in a reproducible manner.

[Tobian]

In the first few pages, they use a tannhauser gate technology system, basically creating a micro-wormhole by massive amounts of gravity distortion. I suspect it is quite inneficient and requires a lot of energy and lots of recharge time, and can only cover relativelly small distances, but you will have to get BC for exact figures / facts..

[BouncyCaitian]

Working on this as I can. I'm working on the adventure itself, attmpting to deal with probably scenarios, plus idea nuggets for the GM's. the write up of the locals technology, cultural & species profile and implications of said technology will follow on after.

But Tobian is correct in that the Local cluster uses Tannhauser Gate Technology to 'fold' from one system to another. Peculiarites in the local technology tree results because they have never figured out warp theroy (indeed, there is a reason for this to be revealed in the adventure). Just getting it all jelled and coherant for use. I'll also be soliciting graphic artists for ships designs in a while.

As soon as I'm out of the damned medbay

[kridenow]

i think perhaps when dealing with Balkanised planets Starfleet would probably simply opt to let THEM chose someone as a rerpresentitive, rather than chose themselves! I severelly doubt they would pick sides!

Yes, which can turn to interesting situations if the local planet is not able to choose representatives.
Some less savory governments could try to grab the wreck, or the planet could generate a two or three sides arguments, possibly leading to a massive war ?

You can then tailor a choice for the players :
"you determined, from your point of view, who should be the representatives (you trust them, you feel confident about their wisdom and morals), but they may not going to be chosen. Or, a war can start.
- will you try to influence the planet, violating your own principles, to avoid what you may consider unnecessary deaths ?
- or do you stay on-board, watch the slaughter, to the risk of seeing the worst individuals win and come to you as representatives ?"

A kind of "lesser of the two evils" situation ?

Pierre