Olympic class starship

[Phantom]

The Olympia is not mentioned in PoF under the Olympic-class.

Looking at the duties listed, I guess I can see it as a science workhorse;
USS Biko-patrol duties Beta Quadrant
USS Hope-assigned emerg. support duties sector 001.
USS Noble-searched for USS Hera, commanded by La Forges mother IIRC.
USS Peace-assigned perimeter transfers of humanitarian aid.

So you have floating hospitals/surgical units, science vessels, patrol vessels, SAR duties and "Red Cross" duties. I guess they could fit into a non-combat workhorse role.


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In the Praetors Name!

[SIR SIG]

Yeah the Noble is the one I was looking for

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SIRSIG
AKA: SirPostalot
AKA: The MapMaker
AKA: The Trek Cartographer
AKA:...Well I could keep going forever

[John Raynor]

That's the phrase -- "non-combat workhorse."

As I see it, the Olympic-class was intended
to (partially) take over for the incredibly
old and inexcusably obsolete Reliant-class.
Although the Reliant-class ships were
originally combat-capable, as they got older,
it got increasingly difficult to keep them
"up to date," so they got shuffled into
non-combatant roles, like hauling
high-priority cargoes and so forth. But
these ships weren't really *designed* for
such missions, and were still pretty long in
the tooth, and it was only a matter of time
before they would have to be replaced. As I
see it, the Olympic-class was *intended* to
take over the non-combatant tasks from those
creaky old Reliant-class ships...

However, the galaxy got more dangerous
shortly after the introduction of the
Olympic-class. Since they were designed for
non-combat missions, Olympic-class ships
would lack the "infrastructure" (a robust
spaceframe, heavy-duty power-transfer
conduits, ect.) for easy installation of
heavier weapons. Perhaps their globular
forward hull (designed, perhaps, for maximum
volume) makes them fly like bricks, too (bad
warp-field dynamics). So Olympic-class
ships became unpopular, and production was
cancelled after a fairly short run...

[Captain Blake]

My personal feelings are that there is a dedicated hospital/rescue ship class.

Starfleet seems to have more classes than is strictly necessary, and create classes and designs that don't seem to make sense.
*cough*Prometheus*cough*.

My Take: They go to places where there are disasters, send down teams to rescue and recover the area, transporting people to the hospitals or various clinics on board as necessary. The Olympic class basically functions like the Red Cross in case of a disaster. They're not just hospitals, they're disaster management and recovery ships. They probably have industrial replicators to provide blankets and food and shelter for the victims of the disaster.

I don't mind them being lightly armed. You never know when you're going to have to shoot an asteroid out of the sky while having to keep the ship steady over a surface site. Or cut through rock to reach the buried underground site to allow transport. No photon/quantum torpedoes though. They aren't armed vessels, they're for rescue.

If the fed can have 40 odd cruiser classes (that we've never actually seen), then they can spare a little room in the NCC numbers for a handful of rescue ships.

Alex

[Homer]

Hmm,
All good arguements, but I want to address the arming of these ships.

I think the Phaser is being seen as a weapon and not a tool. A hospital ship may need the phaser as a sort of Jaws of Life type thing, picture this, a damaged ship has personnel that cannot be reached easily, and for for some technobabble reason, they cannot be beamed out. The medical ship in orbit pinpoint a very fine beam and surgically cuts away the bulkhead allowing rescue teams to begin their work. This is just one example, and so I have no problem with starfleet allowing phaers on medical ships.

[John Raynor]

I can see hospital ships being equipped with
a single extremely short-range phaser capable
of pin-point accuracy, but they wouldn't have
the kind of fire-control electronics and
software needed for hitting a fast-moving,
uncooperative target in battle. Obviously,
the "jaws-of-life phaser" on a hospital
ship *could* be pressed into service as a
weapon, but the gunner would be firing
without the benefit of, for instance,
targeting sensors intended for locking onto
fast-moving targets, and should take a
*hefty* penalty.

Some fudging with custom software ("...I'll
reconfigure the lateral sensor arrays to
compensate for the Doppler frequency
shift...") might be possible, but *any* use
of weapons *as such* by a hospital ship
should trigger a court martial, and the
Federation's diplomats would probably take a
very dim view of circumventing the
deliberately limited military capabilities of
supposedly non-combatant vessels ("...it took
us thirty years to get the Klingons to
recognize their non-combatant status, and
you've given them a reason to reconsider!")

[Phantom]

Even non-combat vessels need to defend themselves. I am reminded of a true story I read once about convoy, to Europe I believe, while sailing to their destination on mildly stormy night they discovered they were being hunted by, again I believe, the Graf Spee. The captain of the lead ship knew that the convoy could not out run the enemy cruiser, so he ordered all other ships full speed ahead while he turned and engaged the Graf Spee with the single 5" arty piece that had been strapped to the frieghter. Needless to say it was a short bloody battle ending with the frieghter being blown from the water, but it did manage to allow the rest of the convoy to escape.

I think this story is a good example of why non-combat ships should be armed. Particularly in the Star Trek Universe, as I said above not everyone respects the the large Red Cross painted on the side.

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In the Praetors Name!

[Phantom]

I still think of them as hospital ships, but I can see where you are comeing from.

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In the Praetors Name!

[toadkiller]

We've had a Olympic class ship in our game and here (for what it is worth) is the backstory we created (all is non-canon created for our game YMMV):

Actually tied it in with the current US Navy's hospital ships which are converted supertankers (really).

We made the Olympic's as modified commercial cargo/transport designs - basically the powerplant, warp drive, everything that makes the ship "go" is lifted directly from the civilian class (along with general hull shape). All SF did was replace the large hold areas with medical spaces. In addition SF maintains a number of the cargo/transport versions of the class for basic support duties. In a case of great need they could be modified to the hospital specs but aren't likely to be.

Why SF would do this? For a hospital ship they would want something with enough internal volume, runs with minimal non-medical crew, and can keep up with the fleet. We suspected that they'd simply find an existing ship that fits the bill and go from there.

As for weapons we gave it enough to be able to defend itself from small threats trying to steal medical supplies, etc. and at least go down shooting if jumped by the bad guys in war time. Light to Med. phasers, no torps - although we did give it a probe launcher that could be modified to a single shot torp tube by a clever PC ( again at 1 torp at a time not a real big weapon). In no way is the class intended to be used as combatant the weapons are only for self defense.

Ramblings of Toadkiller

[John Raynor]

Re. "Non-Combatant" Vessels

There's a *legal* difference between a
"non-combatant" freighter (which isn't
armed because adding weapons wouldn't really
be cost-effective, and because the ship's
power plant can't supply enough power for
significant weapons, anyway), and a
"non-combatant" hospital ship (which, at
least in theory, doesn't need weapons, and
can't be equipped with them, because
everyone agrees that it's not a valid
target).

The Federation often seems to be willing to
fight with one hand tied behind it's back,
strictly for moral/ethical reasons. The
Prime Directive (which undoubtedly prevents
the exploitation of many worlds with of great
strategic value) is a good example. So is
its refusal to equip its ships with cloaking
devices, merely because a treaty says it
shouldn't. The whole "no pure warships"
thing is a third (although, admittedly, this
particular rule seems to be breaking down).

Not shooting at hospital ships is, arguably,
a "civilized" thing to do, and I can see the
Federation taking an impractical position
(leaving its hospital ships basically
defenseless, except for painted insignia),
to stick by one of its own principles, and
to act as a moral model/ethical model for
others...

...of course, this naturally leads one to
speculate, re. the status of "interstellar
law" in the "Star Trek" universe.

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redwood973:
Didn't they use an Olympic-class in the DS9 "Starship Down". If that is what it was, then it exists as canon. (I like the design, but I have a serious problem with the ship being armed. A hospital ship should never be armed. Being armed makes it a hostile no matter what its mission. At least they didn't give it photorps too!)</font>

In _our_ culture medical ships are unarmed and considered non-combattants. I doubt Andorians, Klingons or Jem'Hadar see it that way.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[toadkiller]

Your definitions of non-combatant vs. combatant work, however even these days non-combatant doesn't always equal unarmed.

Many military support vessels are "non-combatant" but still carry self defense weapons 'sea-whiz' anti-missle guns, etc. (one could equate that with ST shields perhaps). Also military medical people are allowed to carry "defensive" weapons to protect themselves and their patients - but NOT to conduct offensive action, as soon as they do so they become combatants and are viable targets. If they are just shooting back at someone trying to overrun the hospital they are not combatants and are not legal targets (which obviously doesn't stop people today a fact which isn't likely to change).

What I was suggesting and what we use in our game is that the hospital ships have a small phaser battery which they are allowed, by SF doctrine, to use in a defensive manner - to defend themselves and their patients and to prevent the ship falling into other's hands. This does not stop the Dominion or anyone else from shooting at the ship (although the UFP would complain of "war crimes" which may or may not matter), nor is it supposed to turn the ship into a "warship" it is simply to provide some small degree of self defense in the event that the ship operates alone. Note: in my game the hospital ship is not intended to ever enter hostile space alone, it would be assigned an escort (or several) or would operate in a secure system and be brought wounded by more robust craft.

In peacetime I see the ships as providing disaster relief, colony support, things like that - in which case the weapons would be solely to keep someone from stealing it using a runabout or something (unless Riker is in command of the target ship).

TK

[Ineti]

Resurrecting this one... What are people's thoughts now on this class? Do they exist in the "real time" such as during DS9 and TNG?

Are they unarmed, armed, etc? Medical ships only, or multi-purpose? Other thoughts?

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by Ineti
Resurrecting this one... What are people's thoughts now on this class? Do they exist in the "real time" such as during DS9 and TNG?

Are they unarmed, armed, etc? Medical ships only, or multi-purpose? Other thoughts?

I use Steve Long's Spacedock concept of the class, converted over to Coda. The class was launched in 2361, and carries Type VI phasers (x3/B) for defensive purposes.

[Dan Gurden]

It should also be noted that Starfleet and the Federation view Phasers as tools, not weapons... Therefore arming a hospital (or non combatant) with a smaller phaser array offers a small degree of self-defence, but also allows the vessels to blast asteroids and meteors, drill a planets crust to relieve geological pressure or even operate on large pregnat space dwelling creatures... (All canon uses of phasers outside of the combat role)

So yes, I see the Olympic class as a devoted hospital ship (after all in a moneyless economy, the cost of designing and building a devoted ship class is irrelevant???), with a single phaser array (used for any other purpose than as a weapon and probably controlled from Ops as the need for a Tactical console is gone too.

Why do I see the Olympic class as a devoted hospital ship? Simple, it fits with Starfleets building ethic;

Most of Starfleets ships are workhorses, able to turn their hand at any task from border patrol, to scientific exploration to defence... From the Constitution through to the Galaxy...

However several ships stand out as different as they are devoted to a task;

Nova Class - Described as a planetary surveyor.
Oberth Class - Science vessel (ask yourself why they need a devoted science ship if the Constitution and Miranda classes were so good at it???)
Defiant Class - Warship/Escort
Antares - Freighter/Transport

There are others that were mentioned by never received air time, so its not too hard to imagine Starfleet building a small line of devoted Medical ships.

And then if you look at the tasks to which Olympic classes are assigned in canon mentions:

USS Biko-patrol duties Beta Quadrant
USS Hope-assigned emerg. support duties sector 001.
USS Noble-searched for USS Hera, commanded by La Forges mother IIRC.
USS Peace-assigned perimeter transfers of humanitarian aid.

Looking for the USS Hera, a lost Nebula Class, so the possibility of 500+ injured crew would likely be helped if a medical ship was on hand.
Emergency Support in Sector 001. I can see how a Medical shipo offers emergency support, as opposed to fleet support, or simply support, the wording used helps imply that it could be a medical ship.
Transfers of Humanitarian Aid. A phrase often used in episodes when medical supplies and treatment were implied during the episodes.

The only one that stands out is the USS Biko.

But there, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury is my case. Based on just as much circumstantial evidence as the case for the prosecution. And at the end of the day the desicion is yours. i know that in my games shes a medical ship.