Did the new Enterprise sleep with your Wife/Signifcant other?
Did Braga come into your house and say your a fat turd and should be done away with or steal your Wife/signifcant other?
Did wearing the new Enterprise uniforms socialy embarress you while on a date?
Fail compliant against paramount for stealing your original ship design for the new Enterprise?
If you answered Yes to any of the above you have a right to be angery this week.
Since Monday I have been growing more and more disgusted with the whole of Trek fandom in general (this is not to be taken as an insult against those here, in fact my posting this little statement means I feel comfortable doing so only here.) It seems so many are so upset about the new series, B&B and etc... that they seemed to have little to no life but to bitch, moan and grumble about a TV show they have NO power over and I might add have not seen even in clips.
On one hand they see the new ship they complian that it is unoriginal complianing that it has NO place in the 22nd century (like they live there!) or it is not visually agreeable with a show now near 35 years old! Lets face it there is NO WAY to have visual continuity with a show 35 years old, damn it! So stop worrying about it and be like me and feel visual continuity began about Star Trek III or IV.
The Strength of Trek is its stories, not the ships, not the damnable technology or anything else. If the stories don't float the show won't and if you nit pick the tech continuity details your missing the larger picture my friends. yes I care for a Cohesive whole in trek if they miss the 61 date for the founding it will be very upsetting to me becasue I feel this is one of only a FEW dates which they should respect. But should the writers be hand tied to the concept of the Romulan wars being fought between 2155-61, just because that has been the accepted fan dates for years? NO. I am much more interested in seeing what the offical story line is and how it works into the established whole before judging.
People complian about the lack of originality but when they show said originality the same people complain about lack of respect for Continuity! You can not have one and the same. You can have Originality within Continuity such as evidenced by the new Enterprise or you can have Originality at the sake of Continuty. Voyager went down this later path and faced the consequences of a huge fan driven backlash, in the end they failed to gain the viewers of DS9 because they did not show that Originality within Continuity that DS9 was able to pull off constantly. Are the PTB at Paramount blind to this I am sure not, I am sure they are breathing down B&B necks because they realise that yes getting new fans is a priority but it's the fans who buy the books, key chians and stuff tribble's! If the fans get pissed, no extra revenues.
And to those who post with such agression about the topic, please relax, join a Volunteer Fire comapny or some other oganization and worry about the internal politics there, at least that matters somewhat in your life more than if the new Enterprise is an Akira or not! In the end I repeat a phase from SNL delivered by Shatner
"Get a Life!"
While the story of Trek is what draws audience both old and new, you cannot ignore details.
Granted, this show will have to take a lot of creative license. I mean who knew back in the 60's that we'll be able to communicate or browse for information by a small computer, or that we can carry a telephone in our pocket?
As you said in your topic, Continuity vs. Originality, what is so original about the 22nd-century "star" ship for ENT that resembles an Akira with raised nacelles?
If anything, I'll probably get used to it, like I have gotten used to the latest starfleet uniform. I don't like it, but it's there...
...like US President George Bush, Jr (less than four more years to go). Hehehe.
------------------ Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
First off I do have a life outside trek, taking pot shots at Enterprise is just another of my many hoddies.
1) I'm not upset about the new series, I upset about B&B running, or should I ruining, the show.
2)The Ship. Going on "canon" visuals it has no place in the 22nd century. First of, going by canon there was no Enterprise in that time frame. Second, the new design is about 50-100 years ahead of the time frame. The Constituion-class was top of the line in its time, yet the Enterprise ship seems to have a similar design. Also, the bridge is movie era modern...Oh, yeah silly me. I forgot they have a special effects budget (that excuse makes me want to launch my lunch, nothing like taking the easy way out)for this series so its alright if the bridge looks more modern then in TOS.
3) "The strength of Trek is its stories..." Yeah, B&B need more new canon information to ignore.
4) Why is that many of the books I have read or other series (like SG-1) are able to come up with interesting stories and yet seem to be able to stick to the canon that they have laid down. Hmmm, could it be that B&B have no imagination...Only those $$$ dancing in there eyes. Vontinutiy in DS 9, where, sorry must have missed it B&B blew away canon in both DS9 and Voyager whenever they felt like it. One of the reason Voyager was a flop...Oh, and the aformentioned lack of imagination.
5) As stated above this is only a hobby I have a life. I have to deal with internal politics in real life...this is relaxing for me. Thanks.
I am glad everybody seems to be getting the mood I was aiming for and not attacking. On a personnel note all the hoopla this week has helped me to get over the lost of a dear and beloved pet which I had for 16 years (I am only 30, so you can imigine my sense of loss.) It has been a wonderful distraction for me, right when I needed it. Its just as my pain subsided and I began to read some post especialy on Trek BBS I became more and more displeased at the way people act about this subject.
I agree, which REG alluded to, that there is a HUGE fan consenses on Trek history and the way it has transpired and I feel it is right for the PTB to respect it as much as they can and not set out to purposely to destroy it. In the end many see this new chapter as threatening those long held assumtions about Trek but yet others like me look forward to seeing new interpretations of that history if I like it I will include it in my vision of things if I don't it will become like The espisode of TNG about DNA uniting all the races, and I will ignore it.
Sorry to hear about your pet. I know what it feels like. About four years ago my family lost a cat we had for close to 20 years and a dog we had for about 15. I to am 30. Last year our new cat disappeared without trace.
First let my say sorry to here about you pets, the only problems I've had in the last two years are the death of fish and a dislocated hip joint on a dog (the dumb thing was trying to climb over a 6' chain link fence).
Second, for the so-called-gamers complaining about the new "Trek" series and how much more advanced looking it is vs. the TOS Enterprise. Have you seen the inside of a US shuttle, nearly any submarine built in the last say 10-15 years, or seen the international space-station in the news, pretty advanced looking if you ask me especially when compared to the sets of the original Enterprise. Now given what they had to work with back in the 1960’s, I personally think they did an excellent job. Now for you "so-called-gamers", how do you play an RPG, use your given gift of imagination to over-lay a more modern appearance to the ol’ Big E. Now don’t get me wrong I have a few problems with the new show (like Bakula wouldn’t have been my first pick, he’s a good actor but), but I’m at least going to give it a Fair trial- not a pre-determined drumhead.
One thing I’m hoping gets explained in the show is "What the hell happened to the Klingon’s heads?" A few other things I’d like to see- Andorians, Tellarites, etc. some of the races we haven’t really seen sense Kirk’s time. My personal opinion on having a Klingon in the first show (correct me if I misinformed on him) is well some one had to be the bad guy, I would have used an Andorian myself. As a closing note- the first time Cptn. Archer says "Oh Boy-" after entering a room, I’m going to calmly finish watching the show, then take a little trip over to Paramount Studios and start pulling the little toe nails off the show writers.
If I have offended any one here, I am sincerely sorry. It is only a show, and the show does go on.
Phoenix. . .a fan of all Trek. . .may we survive 'til his dream comes true
6' chain link fence, huh. Never seen a dog try that before.
So, from the examples above Enterprise should be Zero-G, cramped and have the calculating ability of my PC (actually todays PCs can out preform the computers on the Shuttle).
I have never had the opportunity to run/play the TOS game, only TNG, but if I had my description would match the era it was in. If I was running an early game then the ship would look like the TV series, if a later game then it would like something like the movies. I try to keep to continuity as much as possible, at least with what has gone before, I might add new races and sectors, but that is about it.
As to the show, I'm not impressed with anything I have heard thus far, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I don't think the ship design fits. For the record I like the design, but it is more a TOS design then a Pre-TOS one.
6' chain link fence, huh. Never seen a dog try that before.
So, from the examples above Enterprise should be Zero-G, cramped and have the calculating ability of my PC (actually todays PCs can out preform the computers on the Shuttle).
I have never had the opportunity to run/play the TOS game, only TNG, but if I had my description would match the era it was in. If I was running an early game then the ship would look like the TV series, if a later game then it would like something like the movies. I try to keep to continuity as much as possible, at least with what has gone before, I might add new races and sectors, but that is about it.
As to the show, I'm not impressed with anything I have heard thus far, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I don't think the ship design fits. For the record I like the design, but it is more a TOS design then a Pre-TOS one.
Eric, I would have to agree with you on most of your points - people are being far too critical too early in the game.
I recall hearing similar nay-sayers over a certain show that was doomed to fail. That was going to be terrible. It'd never stand up on its own merits. It was going to out-and-out suck, and that was the cold facts of life.
I'm so glad Deep Space Nine proved them wrong. It's certainly my favorite of all the series.
Me? I'm going to wait and see if the first half of the season can keep my attention. If not, it's time for reruns of MASH or something. If so, I'll keep watching it. I gave Voyager the same chance, and it failed. While I saw a few Voyager eps I liked, the majority of it I thought was pure fluff. But at least I can form an opinion of it. I've seen it.
"...like US President George Bush, Jr (less than four more years to go). Hehehe."
Trust me on this...after four years in intelligence, I can tell you the other guy was a much worse choice.
I'm not talking just about his flexible reality, in which he was the hero... The guy was a freakin' traitor. Good thing he had Reno running interference for him.
And no...I unfortunately can't say why. But I would LOVE to.
McCain? Take a good look at McCain-Feingold...then hope it doesn't pass. Our boys in Wsahington are finally going for our rights of political speech.
Qerlin: don't worry, for those of us paying attention, we saw plenty of exposes on the treasons of Clinton/Gore...they even occasionally made the media when the elites weren't looking...it's just that the general populace for some reason always seemed to look the other way...
As for McCain/Finegold: the only rights the politicos are protecting are their incumbancies and the interests of the rich who elect them. Your mistake is in accepting the proposition that "money=speech". Money does NOT equal speech. A rich man's voice is as loud as any other man's. Money allows him to amplify his voice to the point that it drowns out the voices of millions who have not the money to compete with him. To restore the idea of all persons being politically equal, we need to eliminate the "money megaphone" that allows the elites to out-shout the vox populi.
*apologises to the rest of the thread for continuing off topic*
[This message has been edited by darkwing duck1 (edited 07-15-2001).]
Back on the subject. The more I hear and see about ENTERPRISE the more I look forward to it. All of the discussion and debating is very eye opening and interesting but everyone should give it a chance. Will the go against canon, yes, but to what extent. I think Paramount realizes how important canon is to fans and I think they are concerned about more than money.
On another note the earliest version of Section 31 has succeded in directing the US Government to proceed with an anti UFO defence ( thats what I call the anti ballistic missle program). The successful test yesterday proves that this will be a reality in a few years. Go Bush.
Contenuity Vs. Originality
Reply With Quote
