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Thread: Star Trek: Nemesis (Director's Cut)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldaron
    I'd like to see it.

    Personally, I've never understood the bashing of Nemesis. I absolutely loved it - about the only complaint I had was the "open door" for Data to come back via B4. But I didn't see it as any worse than the "open door" for Spock to come back and get his katra (was that it?) back via Bones.

    Honestly, I would rank the ST films as follows (out of 5):

    I (ST:TMP) - 3
    II (ST: TWoK) - 5
    III (ST: TSFS) - 3
    IV (ST: TVH) - 8
    V (ST: TFF) - 1
    VI (ST: TUC) - 5
    VII (ST:G) - 3
    VIII (ST: FC) - 5
    IX (ST: I) - 3
    X (ST: N) - 4

    Anything over 3 I'd be happy to see a DC of! (And yes, I ended that sentence badly! )
    You say 5 is highest: What's the 8 doing by Voyage Home? Your favorite movie?
    It's mine too, I'd award it an "8" anytime. I was just surprised, that's all.

  2. #17
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    If find it humorus that William Shatner created what many thought was the worst Trek movie of all time the Final Frontier. His career tanked after that and he did paintball DVDs.

    Then we got Insurrection... Then Nemesis, Shatner has won awards and on a hit TB series, where he plays an insane lawyer...

    So we now know the stake has been removed from Shatner, maybe it is in Bermen, why we have not heard anything from him.

    Let's be realistic Nemesis was the worst of the films, it is sad, Final Frontier did much better. That is saying something.

    Now I have friends saying it is great and follows contenuity then I show them my Trek DVDs, they change their minds.

    Sadly Nemesis was written by a very good writer, but his script obviously got B&Bed.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by First of Two View Post
    We've already got the original DVD and the Special Edition DVD... let's try not to get TOO George Lucas, here...

    What are the differences between the original DVD and the Special Edition DVD release?

    Is it just more features and stuff or are there actually more deleted scenes, commentaries and the like?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cut View Post
    That's too bad. With all those deleted scenes and holes in the storyline it would be the Trek movie that a DC would possibly do a lot of good.
    Unless those deleted scenes include Sela and Tomalak, I doubt it could make the film any better.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
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  5. #20
    The only thing that could make the film better would be for someone to go back in time and stop it from being made. Seriously... I saw Nemesis at a matinee and not only wanted a refund of my three dollars, I wanted those two hours of my life back.
    “In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations.”

    -- Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy

  6. #21
    I liked Nemesis, I think you guys are being a little harsh on it.

  7. #22
    Hey, it was a perfectly good rehash of Wrath of Khan:
    • Megalomaniacal villain? Check!
    • Weapon of mass destruction? Check!
    • Major character killed saving the day? Check!

    Oh, except Wrath of Khan was well-scripted, well-cast, well-acted, well-paced, well-directed and... well... well-everything compared to Nemesis. Nemesis made me nostalgic for the epic suckage that was The Final Frontier and The Undiscovered Country, and that's saying something.

    Now I'll accept the accusation of being a little harsh. But only a little. LOL
    “In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations.”

    -- Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy

  8. #23
    With the exception of a major character killed those are characteristics of almost every Star Trek movie.

  9. #24
    I think the sheer number of people who rate TFF over Nemesis need to be forced o watch Trek V again. Really that movie was the biggest suckage of the lot. Far worse than Nemesis.

    (The only thing worse than Trek V is Highlander II, although at least the Highlander series admitted their mistakeand pretended it didn't happen, while every anally retentive trekkie forces Trek V on us as canon... )

    Its not as bad as Trek V, although I agree that it one of the worst. I'll give you that! As the great comedien Eric Morcombe once said;

    "Its got ALL the right notes. Not neccesarily played in the correct order."


    In my Trek Universe the plot of Nemesis revolves around Sela who is the puppet master but whose role remains entirely off-screen. Using the events of the movie to destroy her political rivals either by death or discredited by association... Then sets Shenzen up against Picard knowing that either way a major thorn in her future plans will be removed and the other too weakened to be an immediate danger.

    Post Nemesis the Romulanm empire starts collapsing with the Reunification and pro-alliance factions working together to try and make nice with the Federation, and the Imperial factions looking to isolate and rebuild again. Meanwhile Sela is pretty much in charge and having taken over the Tal Shiar and fairly indifferent towards the corrupt empire is looking to cut loose the dead weight and begin again...

    So I get to keep all the canon continuity, but put a different slant on events that plays things somewhat differently.
    DanG/Darth Gurden
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  10. #25
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    I don't think I'll ever be able to form a really unbiased opinion of Nemesis. I mean, I can't help having a little sympathy for a movie that is vigorously bashed six months before it was released, no matter how bad that movie can be. It's not my favourite Trek movie indeed, but I can't really say it's the worst. I agree there were many similarities with ST2, down to the final fight in a nebula, however.
    (and I agree with Dan that Highlander 2 is probably one of the worst movies belonging to a series).
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  11. #26
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    Nemisis was pretty bad. It just never clicked with me; the plot was comiing at you from all sides (he's Picard's clone that they made a slave...oh and he seems obsessed with Troi but that never goes anywhere....oh and here's a previously unkown Soong android...and here's the baddies new space battleship that isn't much worse than any other big ship we've ever seen). Add to that what seems to be a complete disregard for canon in some parts, and it just seems to be slapped together.

    Oh, and back when Highlander 2 came out, me and a friend came up with a couple of extra lines of dialog that might have made the whole movie make more sense. AFter the bad guys tell the rebels that they are sending them to Earth to fight and kill each other, we thought that adding something along the lines of "You will be scattered throughout time and place, born anew on this world, never knowing your true origins, only seeking the Prize!"

    Well, for two college guys that just spent their beer money on that crap fiesta, it was the best we could come up with at the time.
    _________________
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  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gurden View Post
    I think the sheer number of people who rate TFF over Nemesis need to be forced o watch Trek V again. Really that movie was the biggest suckage of the lot. Far worse than Nemesis.
    Actually, I did, and I found I liked STV a lot more than I did when I was a kid. The script probably needed a rewrite for focus, but at its core there was a solid Trek film there. Nemesis, on the other hand, had a script sewn together from a whole bunch of SF cliches and other Trek episodes (Picard and Data fight their evil twins! Troi gets mind-raped! Riker fights Nosferatu in the Nostromo-like bowls of the Enterprise!) and thus, no core, no real concept behind it. No, Wrath of Khan+!clone doesn't count.

    And they apparently missed the most obvious casting choice for Shinzon: Patrick Stewart.
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  13. #28
    To me Generations is by far the worst movie out of them, for the most part I liked the rest even V which I also thinks gets a bad rap. For me though the most implausable and impractical is IV which I still rate well above Generations. After IV III I thought was pretty bad but it has its good points, also it helped that Doc Brown makes a pretty convincing Klingon...who would have thought.

    I try to forget Generations even exists though. The concept is totally ridiculous, it crams two eras together just 'cause, Data gets on my nerves throughout the entire movie and the villian in the end couldn't even kill a cat. On the bright side Whoopi Goldberg isn't being shoved down my throat any longer so that's a plus.

  14. #29
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    Shatner gets too much blame for the problems with ST:V. When the studio cuts your budget when you're already in the middle of principle photogrohpy, you're pretty screwed. I'm actually okay with V, though it couldn't compete with II - IV.

    Nemesis - yeah, that was teh suckage, for so many reasons, not the least of which is Shinzon even being allowed to live after the original scheme went awry. They'd have just killed him.
    - Daniel "A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having."

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
    In my Trek Universe the plot of Nemesis revolves around Sela...
    You should write that plotline up as a novel, it would be the only good thing that came out of Nemesis.
    “In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations.”

    -- Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy

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