An Estimate of the size of Federation Uniformed Services

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Good points. My take on it is actually, all of the above.

The resoning behind that is, unless the charter is written by a part that is much stronger than the rest (and who can afford a "Take it or leave it" approach), it probably is a compromise by what the original members want. As the original members of UFP most likely was on equal footing, it probably is riddled by compromises.
Earth, barerly climbed out from the Post WWIII darkness before thrown into the war with the Romulans, probably wanted a strong defense force in case a new war erupts (but to war weary to have any true hawks in the top, so no one is interrested in conquest/offensiv expansion)
Other members, as the Vulcans, is much more passifistic and would probably not like a military union. A defence alians would be enough from that perspective. But exchange of knowledge and joining resourses for exploration would probably be high on their wish-list.
When war fresh in memory, diplomacy is usually prefered. So UFP might originaly be a defense alliance with knowledge/cultural exchange and trade agreement to strenghten the ties. Starfleet ends up as a paramilitary organisation with the primary mission to search for new life-forms, creating diplomatic ties if possible to defuse any future incidents (and if that is not possible, to keep track of potential enemies). Ad a century or two and both UFP and Starfleet had morphed, but the original ideas are still there at the core.

[JALU3]

So at the heart there are three things:

Exploration
Defense/Diplomacy
Science

Of these three . . . over time . . . and during some time periods . . . the focus changes . . . but all of them always have a strong presence within the organization.

Especially in an era where knowledge based warfare . . . is more important then number based warfare . . . Exploration and Science are a must if one is to mantain a compeditive edge over those woes views aren't as rosy as your own.

[spyone]

I haven't watched much Enterprise, but this is what I thought about the Vulcans joining the Federation: I think they joined because we asked them to, and they figured we needed to be watched.

I think we scared the hell out of the Vulcans. They had their own ideas about the "maturity" a society needed to handle given levels of technology, and we kept jumping ahead.
Most histories of Vulcan put 1000 years or so between their near-apocalypse and their development of warp drive, and that was basicly what they thought it took: nearly blow yourself to kingdom come, let cooler heads prevail, spend generations learning to get along, then go out into the stars.
We, on the other hand, developed warp drive less than a generation after the "nearly blow yourself to kingdom come" phase. I am sure that the Vulcan who detected Cochrane's warp signature thought "No Way! They blasted themselves back to the stone age just a little while ago."
The Vulcans are afraid we are learning too much too fast, and they are afraid that will let us rise from "danger to themselves" to "danger to others". And they were desperately looking for some way to exert some control on us without having to give up their "we don't conquer people anymore" worldview.

Then we said to them, "Hey, we're making this thing called the Federation to handle extra-solar affairs. Want in?"

Everything we've seen suggests the Vulcans were ... less than eager members of the Federation. If Spock was truly the first Vulcan in Starfleet, one wonders why a founding member waited nearly a century. And how many times did McCoy complain that he didn't know what he was doing because the Vulcans wouldn't share medical information with the Federation?
It seems to me that the Vulcans wanted a say in what the Federation did, but wanted to be standing far enough away that they wouldn't get hurt when the humans blew themselves up again.


Another good thing about the EU as a model: its Charter is confusing because it keeps referring to other treaties. It is the end result of a group of nations growing closer by inches. I suspect the Federation is something similar.
Like, there may have been an Earth-Andor mutual defense treaty, an Earth-Tellar free trade agreement, and a Earth-Vulcan free passage agreement (letting us cross each others' space). Andor wants in on that free passage, Tellar wants Vulcan to join the free trade pact, etc.
So, the Federation charter may read more like "Treaties A, B, and C now apply to all Members."

[Owen E Oulton]

If Spock was truly the first Vulcan in Starfleet,

Fannish speculation, completely unfounded in canon, and pretty much contradicted by the statement that there was an entire Vulcan-crewed Constitution-class cruiser. Why this belief persists after nearly 40 years is beyond me.

[JALU3]

It seems to me that the Vulcans wanted a say in what the Federation did, but wanted to be standing far enough away that they wouldn't get hurt when the humans blew themselves up again.

Although this strays from the subject . . .

. . . This would explain why there was no visible Starfleet presence to take in the Enterprise command crew, in ST:IV, back to Earth & Starfleet Command.

Fannish speculation, completely unfounded in canon, and pretty much contradicted by the statement that there was an entire Vulcan-crewed Constitution-class cruiser. Why this belief persists after nearly 40 years is beyond me.

Just because there was a Constitution-Class Cruiser that was fully manned by Vulcans didn't mean that it wasn't part of the Vulcan Navy (or some other Vulcan based organization). We know that Vulcan has a pretty sizible independent space faring fleet (even up to TNG?) . . . and LUG speculates that Andor has their own star faring fleet.

Which brings to question, how common is it for member species/systems/planets to have their own fleet . . . operating independently or as a reserve to Starfleet?

So, the Federation charter may read more like "Treaties A, B, and C now apply to all Members."

Or they could have made a new treaty . . . that incorporated the old treaties base language into the new treaty . . . thus having something solid to present to non-original members.

Or maybe the original treaty that founded the Federation . . . has been superseded by new documents. Not all nations are governed by their original document(s).

[SIR SIG]

Just a thought i've had after reading this topic.

Perhaps the 75000+ ships is a global/spatial ship registration. Some kind of civil/military registry code used by the FEDERATION ship builders.

Therefore, across the 75000+ ships, some or most of them are NCC. While others are NAR, NX etc

So you could cut your SF ship numbers down a bit with mixed in civilian registries within the 75000+ mainstream registry count.

I still go with 5-15000 figure during the DW for SF

[JALU3]

Let me necro this thing, with a question. I have been asking on another board, and would like your opinion of the answer, what do you think the Officer to enlisted ratio in Starfleet? I have read elsewhere that some suggest a 1:4 or 1:6 ratio, while others say it is more realistic that it is somewhere closer to 1:18 or 1:20.

[BouncyCaitian]

I addressed this in my campaign and used Military Academies from around the World as Star Fleet Academy - Ellis Island, Bremerhaven, Star City, etc. I found having only one Academy to be bone-shatteringly stupid, not to mention unrealistic.

And different academies would have different emphasis for instruction.

Granted it made for interesting byplay amoung the characters when you had a character drop into from the eqivalent of Voyska spetsialnogo naznacheniya, Alfa cadre aboard a Science vessel. Particularly when they were taciturn as hell