Trek 11 Not Dead?

[Sea Tyger]

Have you ever watched an episode of Enterprise, Nene?

It's not proven that prequels don't work for Trek. Most people attribute Enterprise's failure to Berman and Braga, and not the era. B&B purposely attempted to distance it from the franchise by leaving Star Trek out of the title for the first two seasons, immediately alienating many fans. B&B also didn't go back to Trek's roots, instead using their tired TNG formula, which hasn't had an original idea since season 7 of TNG.

The problem was further compounded by Enterprise screening on UPN, which wasn't in every market. I didn't get to see the show until Sunday nights, and that was often bumped about because of the World Series or some other major sports event. Schedule uncertainty like that kills viewership like nothing else (ask Joss Whedon).

The fourth season (with the conspicuous exception of Berman's abomination of a series finale) is widely considered the best and most popular of the series, and that was headed by Manny Coto, with little (if any) input from B&B. Had Paramount decided to continue forward, we would have likely seen Enterprise flourish like TNG and DS9 did in their last 3-4 seasons.

Just because you don't think a Trek prequel can be done doesn't make it so.

[Nene_Richards]

Have you ever watched an episode of Enterprise, Nene?

It's not proven that prequels don't work for Trek. Most people attribute Enterprise's failure to Berman and Braga, and not the era. B&B purposely attempted to distance it from the franchise by leaving Star Trek out of the title for the first two seasons, immediately alienating many fans. B&B also didn't go back to Trek's roots, instead using their tired TNG formula, which hasn't had an original idea since season 7 of TNG.

The problem was further compounded by Enterprise screening on UPN, which wasn't in every market. I didn't get to see the show until Sunday nights, and that was often bumped about because of the World Series or some other major sports event. Schedule uncertainty like that kills viewership like nothing else (ask Joss Whedon).

The fourth season (with the conspicuous exception of Berman's abomination of a series finale) is widely considered the best and most popular of the series, and that was headed by Manny Coto, with little (if any) input from B&B. Had Paramount decided to continue forward, we would have likely seen Enterprise flourish like TNG and DS9 did in their last 3-4 seasons.

Just because you don't think a Trek prequel can be done doesn't make it so.

Yep. Did all 4 seasons. So nice try. Try again, don't say that I dislike something I never saw it that is just a bad argument. I watched all of Voyager too.

Saw no difference in the 4th Season except hearing Manny Coto this and Manny Coto that people said. Was not impressed. His influance meant nothing, but alot of Enterprise people say look at what he did hardly any B&B input. *shakes head* Sorry, but if Manny Coto the so-called savior of Enterprise did not get it to work, means another reason for bad concept.

I watched them both because I am a Trek fan, but I honestly thought the show was terrible. Why did I watch for support hopefully for something better, not going to happen it seems even with the bad ratings. Prequels don't work and that is MY opinion and to myself it was proven right more than once as well as many of the people that do agree with me.

You like your Enterprise, Sea Tyger, as I said in my previous post:

You, LugTrekGM, can hold onto your dream that prequels are good as do all the others that believe that and that is your right. I am not going to dispute that. You have that right, even though I think it is wrong.

Same goes to you. You can think what you want and I will think mine.

Just where is Manny Coto now?

Not with Trek as B&B blamed him for the last season's cancellation, he became the hornless goat (human sacrifice) B&B used to blame the failure of the series on, adding the Fans like us, to their overlords at Paramount/Viacom, who are just ignorant on their best franchise period that believe everything that B&B tell them. Manny Coto is not even involved in the new Movie idea the last I read.

So let's just let us be bygones, but I hope this idea fails before it even goes into production.

[Sea Tyger]

Well, to my analytic eye, your arguments are flawed about why Enterprise was cancelled; you're convinced that just because I like Enterprise, I cannot be objective, and you accept no other explanation for the cancellation of the series. But, since I can't convince you of your errors, we'll agree to disagree.

Anyway, it looks like you're in the distinct minority of people who've responded to the Trek 11 poll on Sci-Fi Wire. I know it's far from scientific (about as scientific as a poll on this board ), but it seems only 15% of respondents don't want the movie to go forward. Nearly four times as many respondents are all for it, and an overwhelming majority (85%) are at least willing to give the concept a chance.

[Nene_Richards]

Well, to my analytic eye, your arguments are flawed about why Enterprise was cancelled; you're convinced that just because I like Enterprise, I cannot be objective, and you accept no other explanation for the cancellation of the series. But, since I can't convince you of your errors, we'll agree to disagree.

Anyway, it looks like you're in the distinct minority of people who've responded to the Trek 11 poll on Sci-Fi Wire. I know it's far from scientific (about as scientific as a poll on this board ), but it seems only 15% of respondents don't want the movie to go forward. Nearly four times as many respondents are all for it, and an overwhelming majority (85%) are at least willing to give the concept a chance.

Sea Tyger, I can very easily do that, but as I said before. You have the right to yours and I mine.

As for the poll, how many times can you cast a vote on it on Sci Fi? I can cast as many times as I want.

This is a discussion about Star Trek 11 and not about your love of Enterprise that would be another thread completely. So let it just be bygones and bygones as I said before, Sea Tyger instead of trying to derail this thread from it's purpose?

[LUGTrekGM]

Okay so by that logic, films about World War II were dead, because it had been told and told. Then Saving Private Ryan was made.

The Western was dead, then Unforgiven was made.

Nobody can predict when the next good thing will come.

It's all about the team making it. It is all about the script, and execution.

Star Trek itself was dead, to everyone, for the longest time, then the Next Generation was made and ran, what, 6 or 7 years?

I have no love for Rick Berman, nor his associate, who shall not be named, lest he be summoned to appear.

But unless you yourself have some kind of secret insider information about what 2007 brings, how can you categorically state what will or will not happen about the future?

Is it not true that the spirit of Star Trek is all about "where we are going" and bright new future?

I myself am open to the idea that good things can happen. Sequel, prequel, side series, whatever. Nobody knows.

In the history of Trek, there was an Earth-Romulan war, and it was not fought by Picard, Janeway, or Kirk and Crew. Someone fought it, and it can be written, shot, and edited. It's not your money, so why the vehemence?

[Sea Tyger]

How is responding to your charge of "prequels don't work" derailing the thread from its purpose? How is using the only Trek prequel in existence as an example (by both you and me) counter to the purpose of the thread?

You made a charge; I countered it. You defended your charge, and I rebutted. How is that derailing the thread?

Our views on Enterprise and its value as a prequel strike at the heart of the Romulan War movie trilogy concept.

I am not the one dismissing the concept of Trek 11 simply because it is a prequel. A well-written screenplay that is entertaining to watch and fills in the gaps of Trek history -- especially such a pivotal point in Trek history -- should be something Trek fans want. Why wouldn't you want to see a good set of movies like that? Give me something more than "prequels don't work."

[LUGTrekGM]

Sea Tyger Wrote:

The fourth season (with the conspicuous exception of Berman's abomination of a series finale) is widely considered the best and most popular of the series, and that was headed by Manny Coto, with little (if any) input from B&B. Had Paramount decided to continue forward, we would have likely seen Enterprise flourish like TNG and DS9 did in their last 3-4 seasons.

This was exactly my experience.

From my contacts at American Zoetrope, (I'm an as yet unproduced screenwriter) I saw the casting sheet for Enterprise in Mar-April 2001, before Paramount had any episodes "In the Can."

A few weeks later, I saw the crew that had been hired. I thought, "Wow, I loved Quantum Leap, this might be really good, a whole new flavor."

I contacted Berman in Summer of 2001, and he wasn't interested in any of my ideas, responded that he already had the first season written, and they were too busy shooting to worry about that far ahead in the future.

In the end, I really didn't like the way Enterprise was handled, but just as it was getting good, it was killed off.

If I speculate as to the politics involved, it might be the case that the palace revolt was put down early, before the young prince succeeded to the throne, but I have not really followed that aspect of it too closely, as I have been involved in other things.

Now, some fans of the old days know one of the strengths of TOS was that Roddenberry was willing to work with outside talent. Some of the better episodes were written by noted science fiction writers.

I have heard that Braga has publicly stated, "The fans no longer know what they want." Actually, I am pretty sure they do know what they want, and it is not his attitude, generally.

I have hopes that this guy Erik Jendresen, gets a greenlight, and not lost in development. I really enjoyed Band of Brothers. Maybe they can get some of the team that wrote Wrath of Khan to do a polish.

The initial post said "The project is not dead," picketing by Nene notwithstanding.

Some films take years to get made, for various reasons.

It took as I recall 7 years for "The Long Kiss Goodnight" to get made, but it's one of my favorite movies.

So, if they can get a good script, and a good director, this "beginning" might actually be the best Trek Film ever made, surpassing even "Wrath of Khan."

[Commander Sonek]

Ok, I will probably get pilloried for this, but here it is:

Nene is right.

This is a bad idea, for all the reasons she laid out, and also for another one, a big one.

This proposed movie is set during the Earth Romulan War.

The captain of the new ship has a name that deliberately evokes nostalgia for a character from years ago.

Do you suppose that the special effects people will try for shots of the starships that look like they were filmed out in space by a hand held camera?

Maybe a subplot that will involve the starship leading a ragtag civilian fleet to safety?

Maybe one of the civilian ships will be a freighter captained by a cynical war veteran?

Nothing I have read in the blurbs indicates anything whatsoever original. Rather, it smacks of a bunch of jealous Paramount suits mining the projects of other, more talented writers and producers for ideas to keep their own failing child on life support.

Cynical? You bet. I sat through YEARS of the abomination known as Voyager out of loyalty.

I let myself believe that Enterprise held some promise. And it did, right until midway through the first season when we saw Trip get pregnant, and F*ing FERENGI!!!

Yes Season 4 of Enterpise showed that they were finally . . . FINALLY . . . interested in making something worthwhile, but by then it was too late to make any difference. Enterpise had been banished to Friday, running opposite Sci fi Channel's Stargate and Battlestar Galactica, the most original sci fi show in years.

So no big surprise that Paramount is scheming to rip off Ronald Moore's idea, slap a Star Trek label on it, and call it their own now.

I'd like to be hopeful, I truly would. But after watching B&B rape Enterprise in the series finale, I . . . just . . . can't

[IceGiant]

I think the Romulan War "IF" done right would do well at the box office. As for enterprise all I will say is that I wasn't impressed with season 4 as much as some folks. For me it's always been a tie between it and Voayeager as to which is my least favorite of the ST franchises.

[Nene_Richards]

See I am not the only one, who thinks it is a bad idea.

I am not going to continue the argument not that I can not make points, but in the past on this board, when this starts getting heated it does not go well for the opposition and I get blamed for sticking to my opinion and not backing down. I think I still have the e-mail the reason why I stopped coming here for over a year. If some of you have not figured out who I use to be on the boards here already.

So I am taking a new approach, you can have your opinion and I can have my opinion, regardless we are all Star Trek fans even if we do not always agree and say eye-to-eye. Who says that we do? The show is 40 years old with 4 spin offs, but not all of us have to like the same things.

I stated my reasons and others agree with me others don't. It does not really matter does it? Fun to have a discussion and a bit of an arguement, but sometimes on forums we all get too passionate on both sides.

I don't want to derail a thread turning it into a war call me nuts, we should just have a nice little discussion, but I back down now if I think it will get too heated.

Let's agree to disagree and move on.

[LUGTrekGM]

Who's getting heated?

I'm just looking at it from the view of a screenwriter, and sci fi writer, who happens to be posting here, because I am also a Star Trek:RPG referee.

Stories, good stories, last, and new stories change hollywood's perception, from time to time.

Now sure, if the same team is setting out to break their own mold in the inner sanctum of Paramount, I won't bet money on the outcome.

But if they can get some new faces in, with a GOOD story that doesn't involve "Oh, this was all an alternate timeline / really just a dream." It will work.

As a side note, I recall that Battlestar Galactica was on TV in the mid 70's. So, I'm not sure if the poster meant "Original Show" or "Much improved retread, with hotter actresses, 30 some years later"

It doesn't have to have the old TOS sets to be a good prequel. I'm not THAT much of a purist, to even guess at how the majority of fans of the old, original series would respond. It does have a certain nostalgic feel, though.

But as long as they take themselves seriously, and convey the original dream, it could work.

If DS9 came before, and Next Generation came after, instead of the way they did it, would people have watched it? Yes, I think so. Others can debate me, sure, that's what these threads allow.

But that would be a prequel that works.

All thoughts of the past work aside, if the show has the right things going for it, it will be a good show.

Prejudging any potential show, what, years before it is made is what, Prejudice? Against Star Trek's future?

If people want it to die, how come they are posting here, at Trrek-rpg.net?

Because true, something dying might not be saved. But sometimes it can.

I suggest that nobody can be sure, until the thing is shot, with a crew of actors.

If it gets made, and flops, call me wrong then, not months and months way ahead of time.

Who does it HURT to take a positive attitude about this, really?

[IceGiant]

I'm one of those people who doesn't believe the new galactica should have been ever called Battlestar Galactica.