Seeking info on the Istari

[Ineti]

I'm starting to put together a framework for a Fourth Age chronicle where the main antagonist is one (or both) of the 'lost' Blue Wizard(s).

The threadline I'm thinking about is that the PCs will help to bring about his downfall, probably after convincing Radagast and the other Blue Wizard to help.

Thematically, I'm thinking of a sort of 'fall from grace' for the 'bad' Blue Wiz, and his redemption at the hands of the PCs and the other two Istari.

So, I haven't read the source material in a while, I need to crack open the books, I know, but in a summary, what are the Istari all about? What's their nature? What happens when they die? Do/can they die?

Does it seem reasonable that one might have fallen from the Good path and would need to be either brought back to the Light or destroyed for the safety of Middle-earth?

Do all Istari have a yearning to get back home to the West? Does Radagast stay on in ME until he fades into the passage of time, or do you think he makes the final trip at some point?

I"m open to comments and suggestions. Have fun. I've cross-posted this to the Decipher boards.

[RaconteurX]

The Istari are themselves Maiar, the same type of being which Sauron is/was. They are the servants of the Valar. As Sauron and the Balrogs show, Maiar can and do go over to the Shadow. Sauron is really just the Shadow of the original Shadow, Morgoth. They are immortal for all intent and purposes, although they can diminish in power much as the Elves do. Once the Fourth Age begins, I will venture that the remaining Istari will dwindle as do the remaining Elves. Arwen is little more than a spirit of place, a few centuries after the War of the Ring. I imagine a similar fate awaits the Istari, but they could prove troublesome. They might be more like Men than Elves, in the end. Saruman certainly came to be, and proved mortal after his fall.

[spshu]

The Valar are part of the Ainur (thoughs of Eru ['God']) that took form and an active role in the creation of Middle Earth and reside in the West. The lesser Valar are know as Maiar. Istari are just the order of the Maiar that were send to Middle Earth to fight Sauron and became know as Wizards.

Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron and the Balrog are all Maiar. Sauron and Balrog died, so yes they can die. Tolkien started but never finish a Fourth Age story that include a plot to bring back no less then Melkor/Morgoth.

It is possible for an Istari to fall from the good path, see Saruman. He went to the dark side working for and against Sauron. This seem like you are doing Star Wars in the disgise of LOTR.

I would think most would have some yearning to go back as they have some contection to the greater Valar and perhaps to other Maiar.

[spshu]

The Over-the-Bree-Hill Gang Rides Again is an article about what we are discussing. It indicates that the Blue Wizards just failed in there mission not neccessarily when over to the dark side.

[Shoshuro]

Just a note...

Their physical bodies died. Remember Gandalf died, but "was sent back" until his work was done.

If you can find it David Day's Tolkien Bestriary(sp) talks briefly about the 2 blue wizards.

[RaconteurX]

In the Fourth Age, however, I imagine that the Istari will no longer return to their bodies. They will be as prone to death by violence as anyone, and may also become mortal... albeit rather long-lived.

[Cpt. Lundgren]

As I understand it, the only reason Gandalf was brought back was because some higher power sent him back. Normaly, a dead Istari would just be dead, despite how incomplete his work might be.

[Tobian]

The Silmarilion is not so much a book as a set of Tolkiens notes, so really it is hard to say exactly what he intended!

But personally my take on it is the Majar is that they are simply lesser gods in their own right.. Yes they are there, in Middle Earth at the behest and serving the patronage of major gods, they pretty much seem free entities, who wear a rainment of flesh.

I recall reading the section of when Sauron died he basically drifted back towards the undying lands then a strong gust of wind dissapated his essence.. essentially he was barred entry back, and dissapated.. He therefore was destroyed because he couldn't return to the lands where the gods live.. This in and of it's self implies that by 'dying' they return home, and in the case of gandalf, he was allowed to return, to continue the fight. Sauron was just the greatest of them, but still a Majar !

The Encyclopaedia of Arda details the two blue Wizards were more or less 'guests' and not really meant to be there anyway, so if they 'died' they would likelly not return, but as Istari, basically Immortal.

http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/a/alatar.html

That shows a little missive.. it appears they may have fallen as Saruman did, in their own ways, which woiuld be the beginnings of a fantastic 4th age chronicle!

[Ineti]

That shows a little missive.. it appears they may have fallen as Saruman did, in their own ways, which woiuld be the beginnings of a fantastic 4th age chronicle!

Yeah, Tolkien mentions that in one of his letters. Good stuff.

Thanks for the comments, all! Great discussion.