CODA Separation System

[tonyg]

When designing ships that have full separation ability (like the Galaxy-class) how arethe individual sections written up? Do they split up the spaces btween the two craft, or as two craft of the appropriate sizes?

For example, lets say we are designing a Borg cube (so the math is easy) that is 400mx200mx80m (okay a Borg "rod"), for Size 7. Now if it can split into four craft, each being 100mx50x20m (size 4) do I wirte each ship up as four size 4 craft (with 51 spaces and 20 Structure each) that merge into the main ship, or as a Size 7 craft (99 Spaces, 35 Strcuture) that divides it points up by four (approx 25 spaces, 10 Structure)?

[Tobian]

From the samples we have in Starships, you design each of the ships seperatelly and as a whole, but when you design them as ships you divide up the goodies. I.e. if you had 2 phaser arrays - and you divide it in 3, one doesn't get one, regardless of if you could afford it's space (as a canonical precident)

Other than that it's pretty wooly, and I expect it could cause a headache!

Wait for someone with better clarification hehe

[Sea Tyger]

The way I understand the creation system (and I've actually had a lot of practice), you create the ship as a whole, then split the measurable equipment between them.

IOW, things like Ops, Sensors, Life Support and Shields are constant throughout the various components; quantifiable equipment like weapons, shuttlebays, propulsion, tractor beams and transporters are split up as desired between the components.

If a section doesn't have its own impulse drive, it can't travel at space normal speed and, as the book describes, "is essentially a large life boat." If it doesn't have a warp drive, it can't go to warp on its own. So, you have to make sure you include enough drives for each section.

Note that equipment that only operates when the section is seperated has a cost saving of -1 space (min 1).

[tonyg]

So, theoretically, you could design a big (Size 10) ship that breaks down into a lot of small (size 2) attack craft, each armed with a Type II or Type VI Phaser, provided you can buy and fit the same number of Phasers for the big craft (some could be concealed for a cost saving, but only usable once separated).

So could you buy Phaser V's (min size 3) and have the small craft each buy unique weapon?

Essentially, I am wondering about what can be done with the extra space aboard the smaller ships. Can it be spent to buy systems that are only usable separated? So the Size 10 ship coul have a size 2 scout/probe that it could detatch and send off into something dangerous. Yeah, I know, a shuttlebay with a Talon or Danube class ship would do the same thing, and be better rule wise....

Come to think of it, the shuttle rules do work out much better. Especially for the warped (forgive the pun), idea I have.

[Sea Tyger]

Using the seperation system for the setting, you don't actually break the sections down into individual ships of smaller sizes. You still treat the ship as a single ship of x size.

So, in that vein, your larger ship can use weapons for the ship of its size, and each individual section would simply use those weapons attached to it. For example, a size 7 ship with saucer seperation capability and 4 Type XI phaser banks could have three banks in the saucer and one in the engineering section. When they seperate, each section gets the benefits of those phasers, even though they technically aren't large enough to use them (if they were created as individual craft). Penetration values change (since you figure each section individually), but even the overall weapons reliability isn't affected by seperation (the quality of the system doesn't change when they're seperate).

Starships is supposed to be abstract, so a lot of number crunching that you do with more detailed ship construction systems isn't required here.

[LUGTrekGM]

I agree, that's the best way to do it.

Rig the overall design as one ship, then allocate the different parts to different sections., figuring penetration per whole AND per section.

Otherwise the scaling factors will throw it off, if you break it into 2 smaller ships of size X in the designs.

[tonyg]

Yeah, I know that Starhips is abstract, and designed to be quick and simple. I'm not actually try to build an uber-dreanought bristling with phasers than divides into a bunch of gunboats. THat's what I think is the primary danger of ships with separation (and with ships loaded with shuttebays filled with fighter-shuttles, too). The offense/penetration tables sort of lend itself to that threat (i.e. 50 attacks @ Penetration 2 is vastly superior to one attack at Penetration 6).

I see that, and am not trying to do somethng like that.

THe problem I'm running into is that the design rules aren't working out well for cargo ships. Specifically the large boxli-like freighters we see in Trek. Realistically, larger ships are more efficient as cargo haulers, since if you double the dimensions of a ship, you cube it's capacity. As the rules are set up it works the opposite way. I realize why-the desingers didn't want to see ships with 100 Type XII phaser or some such. THe downside of that though, is that size 1 & 2 ships can actually carry more cargo that their dimensions allow (Tenically,if your not careful you can "pull a TARDIS" and fit over 400 cubic meters of cargo into a 3mx1mx1m craft) , and larger ships can't carry very much.

Of course, if CODA used the sqaure/cube law for calculation a ship's allotment of spaces, the largers ships would either be bristling with components and maxed out suystems, or we would have to increase the cots of components to match. While it probably makes sense for a larger ship with the same engine as a smaller one to spend more spaces for a "bigger" engine. It would make the bookeeping more complicated and pretty tedious.


So I'm working on trying to find a loophole to use to shoehorn some cargo ships. Then I'm going to make sure that I plug the loophole so it can't be misued to build battlewagons.


My current working model is to write up the cargo containers as separate ships, and use a specilized variation of the docking port rules from ESO to connect them to the "hauler" craft. There will be penalties for the cargo ship (restricited maneuverablity, must extend shields to protect the modules, linked EPS conduits, vulnerable to damage from the attached containers, weapons systems combine for Penetration values, treated as a signle ship for weapon penetration values, and maneuvers, etc.). I figure that if I do this for cargo it will be okay (a million self-sealing stem bolts isn't going to unbalance the starship combat system, but a million quantum torpedo launchers will). I just want to make sure that my loophole works, and then that it won't be a good option for anything else.


I should be able to shoehorn a Java-class freighter into CODA this way. I just want to make sure I don't leave a gap to shoehorn the Death Star. I figure if I'm going to use a crowbar to get in the door, I should at least lock the dor behind me.

[LUGTrekGM]

For a big freighter, I'd suggest doing it like this:

(roughly, I haven't proofed this as a rule, just as a concept)

Design the part of it that is the tug, like a size 3 or 4 or whatever.

Use that amount of spaces for the shields, weapons, etc.

The "Rest" of the ship, is effectively an empty tube or box, but it will have mass, weight, and inertia when it is filled.

Calculate that resulting size, and use only the size modiferes for that part of the ship, i.e. slower turning, etc. but not the weapons and stuff and all the rest.

I thought about this via going back and looking at the franz joseph designs for tugs and cargo modules.

Something like that, perhaps might work.

Since you are not filling the rest of the ship with all the weapons and such, you are effectively building the small tug ship with the mass and volume of the whole container ship.

Comments are more than welcome, but this is the route that I personally would go.

I think you are right, and clear on the idea that it can't be a "(huge) size X cargo ship", otherwise once out in the community it turns into an armed merchant battleship.

[tonyg]

That is essentially what I'm doing. Building the tug/cargo hauler as a ship, and then the cargo containers as seprate craft that attach to the hauler. I'm throwing in a few penalties to the "mothership" to reflect the fact that the ships are linked.

If I use part of the hull as a size 3-4 hauler and the rest as cargo spaces, it will fail miserably, as the smaller vessel will take up most of the spaces of the larger one. For example a size 8 frame with a size 4 tug has something like 400 times the volume of the size 4 ship, but only about 2.3 times the cargo capacity.

But a series of size 4 ships linked together will give me the right amount of cargo space. I just got to write up the "cargo hauler" edge so that it can't be used to make a rolling wall or phaser cannons.

It's not really a game issue for cargo though. I've noticed that the cargo ships in Spaceships seem to bend the normal cargo rules a little. Essentially cargo capcity is only important for merchant campigns or situations where the crew is trying to fit something important (but big) on a ship-like, say, two humbackwhales and water. -BTW, a pair of 16mx4mx4m whales with 225 metric tons of water takes up 30 cargo units. Just right for a B'rel-class ship!

More of a "Hey how can I do that?" sort of thing not a "I need this for the campaign" thing.



'

[TFVanguard]

From my upcoming Jaynz Guide 2265


Separation Systems
Emergency Separation
Space: 1
For many ships size four and over, an emergency separation system is in place which allows the jettison of the warp system and engineering section in time of crisis. The separation system seals off the two ‘hulls’ connected, and then blows them apart with a series of explosive bolts.

Usually this leaves the saucer section alone to act as a lifeboat. A ship with this system can only ‘reunite’ with repairs at a dry-dock. This is a desperate maneuver, and one to be used sparingly.

Note: A Narrator may want to come up with his own statistics on each ‘separated component’ when and if this situation comes up. In general, the saucer section of a Federation ship acts as the ‘lifeboat’, and will operate only under impulse drive and power.

Transport System
Space: 2 (one on each component)
With the introduction of the Ptolemy class, a new ‘separation system’ was introduced. With this system, a ‘host’ ship can transport large, specific-purpose hulls to perform a variety of mission profiles.

In general, these pods provide large amounts of cargo or passenger space, but some have been designed to provide additional armament, or other capabilities to the ship that carries them.

The container may provide bonus power to the host ship (as well as its own systems), but may not boost the drive system of the vessel. When combined, the host vessel’s warp and impulse drives are the only systems used for propulsion. If one of the connected pods has its own drive system, it is only in operation when the pod acts on its own, separated from the host vessel.

When combined with one or two pods, the host vessel’s effective maximum warp rating is reduced by one point. Maneuver modifiers are also each reduced by one point.