For you Stargate fans of the P90...

[black campbellq]

...I just shot the P90 5.7mm this afternoon. I expected it to be a major disappointment. What an absolutely fantabulous piece of work! I fired a lot of stuff in the army, while doing ranges; this takes the cake. No recoil, accuracy on par with the M4 carbine, excellent operation. The 5.7mm round is super flat in trajectory, high penetration, with yawing effects after entry. Better than the 5.56mm, IMO. For you Stargate fans, there's a civilian one out -- the PS90.

The handgun made for the 5.7mm is just as good -- more accurate than anything I've shot, with better range. Little recoil (but a hell of a muzzle flash!) 20 in the mag. It was so good, I went out afterward and bought one.

[REG]

I don't know if I should be happy for you ... or if I should be relieved I'm not living near you.



So, why isn't our US Armed Forces armed with them, particularly vehicle drivers?

[Sho-sa Kurita]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the P90 (and other weapons black campbellq speaks of) are made by Fabrique Nationale, yes? Purely for supply reasons, don't know that you'd want to arm your military with a foreign-made weapon, if they are friendly (for now).

[Tobian]

Well I'm pleased you liked it actually. Most people usually complain that it was a stupid and bizarre choice for the SG1 team, but I suspect a lot of that is due to a nationalistic pride issue (I.e. it's not American mad!) I won't be buying one, but it puts it all into perspective!

[spyone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the P90 (and other weapons black campbellq speaks of) are made by Fabrique Nationale, yes? Purely for supply reasons, don't know that you'd want to arm your military with a foreign-made weapon, if they are friendly (for now).

Yup, that's it.
The US military has a pretty strong bias against anything no made here, and on the rare occasion when they decide to adopt something from a foreign maker, they require that facilities be built here to make the ones we are buying (like the Barretta).
Conversely, I have heard that equipment that is made in America but not adopted by the US military suffers bias in the rest of the world. Basicly, the thinking goes that if it wasn't good enough for the US military there must be something wrong with it.

[Sho-sa Kurita]

Well you really have to look at it from a supply standpoint. If, for whatever reason, the supplying country becomes an enemy, where are your supplies going to come from? It's just a sensible security measure.

On an SG-1 note, in one of my favorite SG-1 commentary moments, the director points out that what appears to be dust flying off the walls of a Goa'uld ship during a firefight, is actually the polystyrene coming apart due to the heavy concussion of the P90 rounds. They do certainly have a hell of a muzzle flash. How did it sound bcq?

[ImperialOne]

To BlackCampbell. How/where did you purchase the FN five-seven? How many rounds in the magazine that you purchased?

[black campbellq]

The noise on the P90 was sharp but not loud enough to require earplugs. The FiveseveN handgun..? LOUD! HUGE muzzle flash, but there's no kick at all double taps are no prob.

The 5.7mm round's legal, so long as it's not the SS190 AP rounds (law enforcement only...) The mags hold 20 -- legal in the US, save for a few places that haven't figured out the 10-round ban is stupid (it's called an extra mag...) Got my pistol at the local gunstore, the PS90 civilian PDW was there, as well. In NM there's none of the nonsense in NY, say; get your fedreal check, pay, go. You have to either carry openly, or get a concealed licence, if you want to carry that way. The ammo was rare, but not Nosler, Hornady, and FN are producing them. & a lot of the sporting goods shops are getting them now. There's a M4 conversion in the works.

As for the quip about hoping not to live next to me -- the woman I saved from a rape (police response time: 45 minutes...yeah, you go ahead an depend on the cops, if you want. Especially when they want to charge the woman for assault for scratching the guy's face) had other opinions. The guy was 6'3" and outmassed me by a good 60 lbs. High on liquid courage...my P99 convinced him to behave 'til the police showed up.

As for the foreign angle -- the M4s and M16A2s we get are usually produced in country, but not all; Armalite does a lot of their production in Thailand and Malaysia. The FN P90s in use by the Federal Protection Service (although they want to go with the M4 now), Secret Service, a lot of the police departments around the nation. The main reason for not having H&K (other than specops groups) or FN is Armalite always undercuts the unti price; with a US contract, they can afford to.

[Cybrludite]

Main problem I've heard with the 5.7mm is poor perfromance in terminal ballistics. Not so much a problem with the P90, as you're going to be hosing them down with the rounds and you get a bit more zip out of the longer barrel. I've read reports that the Five-Seven's terminal ballistics are similar to a .22 Magnum. Should the car-jackers around here start wearing kevlar, I'll swap out my 1911 for my CZ-52, otherwise I'll stick with the one that lets the most air in...

(Re: the CZ-52, Class IIIA vests (the heaviest concealable bullet resistant vests made) stop 7.62x25mm bullets which move at 1350 to 1450fps. The Wolf Gold Line ammo from Serbia has a muzzle velocity of 1745fps )

[Tobian]

Depends what you want to use it for I guess.. if you want it for personal defence, then maybe it's not the best (what hella kind of place do you live!!!) but for shooting down the range for recreation, it sounds good!

Besides, I'm sure SG1 probably uses titanium-trinium rounds or something, so that's not as much of an issue

[IceGiant]

In one of the episodes Carter mentions the armor piercing capabilities of the P90 to jaffa, so I would assume they are not useing the civie version.

[Cybrludite]

Depends what you want to use it for I guess.. if you want it for personal defence, then maybe it's not the best (what hella kind of place do you live!!!) but for shooting down the range for recreation, it sounds good!

Besides, I'm sure SG1 probably uses titanium-trinium rounds or something, so that's not as much of an issue

I work in New Orleans, and have to commute in from the boonies every night. If I'm not at work, I keep my .32 in my pocket, and my M1911A1 .45 stays next to the driver's seat when I'm in my car. Things have improved quite a bit, though. I no longer feel the need to keep a loaded Mossberg shotgun and/or my Romanian AK-47 knock-off under a blanket on the back seat... (I wish I was being flippant about that... Thankfully, I never needed to use them, but having them close to hand was a comfort.) One of these weekends, I'm going to have to stop by the range in Slidell that rents automatic weapons and see if the P90 is one of the items they've got.

[Tobian]

I have one word for you.... "MOVE!"

[spyone]

I am kinda curious what you do for a living, but if anybody is aware that any job can turn "high risk" I guess it would be me.

I just tried my favorite search engine (and then checked Google and got exactly the same results) and it still works: use the keywords "molotov cocktail virginia beach" and the top 4 hits are all local tv news covering what happened to me at work back around April 12.

Nobody was injured, but we did have our paranoia dialed up quite a bit.
And this was in a really nice neighborhood.

So, do whatever you need to to maintain peace of mind. For me, it is knowing where the nearest fire extingisher is at all times.

[black campbellq]

The ballistics on the 5.7mm get a lot of crap from people that haven't shot it. The SS195 or SS197 ammo (the civilian stuff) shouldn't penetrate a vest, but it'll got through 3" of oak. The round yaws (tumbles) because the back is heavier when it hits soft tissue. It'll powder bone on impact.

A lot of people have been skeptical of the round because it doesn't have the "oh crap!" factor of a maw like that on the .45. I'm a big 1911 fan, carry a PPK most of the time, but after shooting this thing, I was instantly convinced. Any round with a trajectory flat enough to hit things, reliably, at 100 yrds, with 400ft/lbs of energy and no recoil...I'm sold! (It also make really pretty sparks when you hit metal speed plates. It would be a great competition piece.)