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Thread: Enterprise Class

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Lundgren
    Ah... lastly. An idea for the role of the new class. DW and Voyager could simply have reminded UFP of the need to go back to deep space exploration, and not only of the frontier patrolling they let Picard do. To many bad things out there and you want to know about them before they stand on the doorstep... So a new ship that are built to go straight out into to unknown and explore during a 5 year mission. Large, state-of-the-art tech and self reliant.
    That was the kind of operation(s) that I was envisaging with this new class. Especially with Starfleets experience of exactly how incredibly dangerous it can be out there. I've mentioned previously that I believed that shuttles would be scrapped, or at least play a minor role in 'modern' Starfleet operations, to be replaced by runabouts instead. This also begs the thought of whether the vessel would carry some type of light, fast scout vessel too - something used in place of the captain's yacht - which may be considered a luxury.

  2. #62
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    Moved the thread by request from Silverback.

    And back to the subject at hand:
    I think that shuttles will still remain useful for a long time. Their boxy shape makes them easy to store away, so they have a great use as a general purpose utility vehicle. But shuttles are not the right tool for every job, and runabouts fills an important gap as they can handle a much higher threat level.

    But a deep space exploration is not only high threat encounters. That is why the Yacht have its use. When encountering a new potential friendly planet, approaching with gunships might be counter productive. Calling the nicely decorated shuttle that the diplomat uses for "the Captains Yacht" makes it sounds much more friendly and important

    Adding a scout ship or not... Well, that depends on what type of stories you would like to run. But 3-4 of the latest runabouts would probably fill that role pretty nicely, without being in the way when they're not needed.

  3. #63
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    Shuttles should remain. It is just that they will be much better. There has been a general trend to upgrade the shutlecraft since DS9/Voyager, and the NextGen films.

    When you start to look at craft like the Argoshuttle, and the Delta Flyer you realize that shuttles are now about as capable as a runabout. I think that the disction (if any) between the two types of vessels is blurring. In another 10-15 years the terms "shuttlecraft" and "runabout" will be completely interchangable.


    The smaller (size 1) shuttlepods are also quite useful. They just aren't suite for anything beyound an interplanetary trip (same star system). These probably won't be ugrapded as much as thier bigger simblins, but thier use will be resitrected to "safe enviornment" situations, like flying around Earth or Vulcan.

  4. #64
    The next question would be whether such a vessel would carry a very small compliment of fighters or whether that role would be filled by a new class of shuttle/runabout to save on hangar space and general maintenance requirements. My personal preference would be for the latter option.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverback
    The next question would be whether such a vessel would carry a very small compliment of fighters or whether that role would be filled by a new class of shuttle/runabout to save on hangar space and general maintenance requirements. My personal preference would be for the latter option.
    I don't think that there really is much of a role for fighters in Trek. THe setting is really a "big ship" sort of place-more like Erth navies prior to WWII. The small (size 1-2) craft just can't go up agianst a big ship, and even if given the numbers to do so, they small ships can't take the punishment.

    That hasn't changed in any of the Trek settings. If you were to change that, you end up complently altering the nature of starship combat in Star Trek. It would shift from a "big ship" based fleet to a "Carrrier" based fleet.

    Technically the ship design rules for ICON, SPACEDOCK, and CODA sure lean to making a carrier based fleet, but it doesn't mesh with what's been on screen.

  6. #66
    So the general feeling would be that a shuttle/scout/runabout type vessel with its greater versatility and functionality would be the way to go? Something akin to the Talon class scout, except more advanced of course.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverback
    So the general feeling would be that a shuttle/scout/runabout type vessel with its greater versatility and functionality would be the way to go? Something akin to the Talon class scout, except more advanced of course.
    I can't speak for a "general" feeling. Just for me. Other people might want to chime in with some thoughts.

    In My opionion though, something like an upgraded Talon-class or Danube-class runabout is probably what we could expect to see. THat would seem consisitient with what we see over the varous TV series. Shuttles improve, but thier role and functions stay about the same.

    That probably holds true for most of the ship as well. Mostly just improvements on eisiting technology with one or two surprises.

  8. #68
    Now for proposed weapon(s) systems. If we're looking at sometime in the early 2400s for this type of vessel to see active service I'd say that it's pretty safe to assume that previously experimental weaponry has now become more commonplace.

    Energy Weapons
    Phaser Array (one or two categories more powerful than 'current' technology)
    Pulse Phaser Array
    (Anti-)Proton Beam (still considered experimental. Designed to penetrate modulating shields.)

    Torpedoes
    Photon Torpedo
    Quantum Torpedo
    Transphasic Torpedo

  9. #69
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    I was thinking something like Type XIV or XV phasers, with comparable Pulse Phasers, and an advanced QTorp system (for ICON/SPACEDOCK-same damage but can with a greater spread; for CODA kick up the offense rating).


    Not familar with the transphasic torps-I'll have to look them up. Possilby they are expimental like the anit-proton beam (have to look that up too).

    Improve the Shields and Power genertion, toss on the new self repairing hull, and lorng range transporters and we got a powerful ship.

    I wonder if it would be biggger? Say size 9 [That seems to be the trend: Ranger (size 5), Constitution (size 6), Constellation (size 6), Excelsior (size 7), Ambassador (size 7), Galaxy (size 8), Sovereign (size 8)]

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    I was thinking something like Type XIV or XV phasers, with comparable Pulse Phasers, and an advanced QTorp system (for ICON/SPACEDOCK-same damage but can with a greater spread; for CODA kick up the offense rating).
    Sounds about right to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    Not familar with the transphasic torps-I'll have to look them up. Possilby they are expimental like the anit-proton beam (have to look that up too).
    They both appeared in Voyager. The torpedoes were from the future, mid 2380s - see Memory Alpha and A Call To Duty. The (anti-) proton beam weapon technology has been used by a few species in the history of ST but the 'most' effective seems to be the Ramuran version.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    Improve the Shields and Power genertion, toss on the new self repairing hull, and lorng range transporters and we got a powerful ship.
    I'm wondering whether the hull should be treated as being ablative to represent its self-repair capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    I wonder if it would be biggger? Say size 9 [That seems to be the trend: Ranger (size 5), Constitution (size 6), Constellation (size 6), Excelsior (size 7), Ambassador (size 7), Galaxy (size 8), Sovereign (size 8)]
    Isn't Sovereign a Size 9 vessel? I'd keep the vessel in the same size category as the Sovereign. I'd envision the new class to be larger than the Sovereign though not by a huge margin. This would allow existing shipyards and spacedocks to build and maintain this class of vessel without modifying the installations to cope with ever larger vessels.
    Last edited by Silverback; 06-24-2006 at 07:18 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    . . . borg transwarp drives and a new warp scale (wf13). The toss in a few suprises to reflect things we didn't knw about. . .
    It's 'splitting hairs' but it's more likely to use a Quantum Slipstream Drive that was used by Voyager. Would it be safe to assume that Transwarp drives are capable of far higher speeds than QSDs?

    Whilst I'm talking about drive systems has there been any significant developments in Impulse engine design and/or other sublight drives?

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    I don't think that there really is much of a role for fighters in Trek. THe setting is really a "big ship" sort of place-more like Erth navies prior to WWII. The small (size 1-2) craft just can't go up agianst a big ship, and even if given the numbers to do so, they small ships can't take the punishment.

    That hasn't changed in any of the Trek settings. If you were to change that, you end up complently altering the nature of starship combat in Star Trek. It would shift from a "big ship" based fleet to a "Carrrier" based fleet.
    It's just struck me that something similar has happened to naval vessels during the first world wars. The emphasis started to focus on ever larger and larger battleships until their vulnerability was exposed by the introduction of carrier based aircraft. Although not exactly the same idea/concept as starships I think there's the potential for a future sceanrio where this apparent weakness in starship design/operations is exploited by an enemy force.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg
    You mean stuff like if a ship has a sentient bio-gel pack computer brain and a "living" sefl repairing hull, does it have rights?
    Sorry: basicly 2 seperate ideas there.

    1) The bio-neural gel packs are an example of "biological technology" already seen in use on Federation ships.

    2) Probably not an AI ship, but definitely AIs on the ship.
    While Soong-type sentient androids remain tantalizingly out of reach, the Federation has a number of other avenues to pursue: Moriarty was created as a sentient program by accident. Is that accident unduplicatable? What happened to Voyager's Doctor suggests it isn't.
    What about the nanites in TNG's "Evolution"? Wesley Crusher's High School Science project achieved sentience!

    But the shining example has to be the Exocomps: reproducable, sentient, and useful.
    In an episode where the entire TNG crew had amnesia, Data theorises that there may be one of his kind on each starship. And why not? Isn't he handy? If you could make more of him, wouldn't you?

    While the bulk of these questions do not bear directly on what future Starfleet ships will be like, here's a few that do:

    The Federation has made a sentient holoprogram on at least 2 occasions, and one of them not through some unique accident after a computer was heavilly modified by Bynars but by using the standard computers on a ship and some programming by an Academy drop-out.

    At least one prototype ship has been fitted with holoemitters throughout the ship to allow holographic peronnel access to the entire ship.

    Holographic personel are currently employed doing unpleasant and/or menial tasks.

    Holographic personel can often operate in hazardous environments that most sentients cannot.


    It seems likely that a Starfleet vessel of the future will have holoemitters throughout (and outside) the ship, specificly so that holograms can do menial and/or hazardous tasks like hull repairs.
    Last edited by spyone; 06-24-2006 at 07:45 AM.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by spyone
    It seems likely that a Starfleet vessel of the future will have holoemitters throughout (and outside) the ship, specificly so that holograms can do menial and/or hazardous tasks like hull repairs.
    Not sure about having holoemitters on the outside of the ship. If the hull gets damaged it's more than likely going to damage the emitters in that area therefore rendering any hologram repair personnel ineffective. This is why we've mentioned the use of nanites for this role instead.

  15. #75
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    Sovereign Size?

    Is the Sovereign-class size 9? Yes and no. The orginingal LUG write-up from Price of Freedom had it at size 9, but when SPACEDOCK was written up, and gave gudielines to saize ships according to voulume, the Sovereign ended up Size 8, the same rating as the Galaxy class (the Sov is a little longer, but the Galaxy is wider). A few other ships, like the Defiant also got a size change with SPACEDOCK.

    CODA Trek is simplier and less detailed than SPACEDOCK, but is clearly derived from it (the size rating are the same), and the Sovereign is size 8 there too. CODA also has the advantage of being the most recent game, so it has some tech avaialbe to it that isn't in the other books.

    I was thinking of Size 9 just to go with the progression of having the new ship being slightly larger than the old one (like is the list of ships I had in the last post). It will also help us to fit all these new components by given up some extra space.


    As for the hull, I was thinking that it would be self repairing AND Ablative. We would probably have to work out some sort of game rules for it. but we might need a threshold at which the self repair ability doesn't work or is slowed (if you destroy half the hull, you've destroyed half the nanites, and so hlf your regeneration ability). So maybe the regeneration rate could be based on Size & structure points. For example, in CODA where ships usually have structre scores around 5 times thier size ratings, we could have a ship (normally)heal Size points in Hull per day, but drop the healing rating by 1 per 5 damage taken. So if a Size 8/40 Structure ship has taken 20 points of damage, it will only regenerate at half rate (4 pts).

    For ICON we just multiply the regen rate by 4, and SPACEDOCK by 40. Just need to decide how fast we want it to heal.
    Last edited by tonyg; 06-24-2006 at 08:56 AM.

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