The Mammal Companies

[LUGTrekGM]

This is in response to another thread, regarding CODA Intellectual Property.

I consider GDW, TSR, West End Games (pre their return), Avalon Hill, SPI, and a few others to be the Dinosaur Companies.

When the CCG Meteor struck the hobby, emanating primarily from the Decipher Expanse, it released much market share into the upper atmosphere, blanketing the land with d20 mana, and thus the mammal companies:

Penumbra
Fast Forward Entertainment
WOTC
Alderac Entertainment
Fantast Flight Games
Last Unicorn Games
...and others...

Were able to flourish in the thus vacated landscape of Panrpgea.

I'm not saying I enjoyed it, except for witnessing the birth of Last Unicorn Games.
Would that they were not a dead end on their own evolutionary path. But relics and artifacts of their existence yet linger in the digs of eBay.

Who misses the old Dinosaurs, besides die hard old school gamers like myself?

What games did they print, and wht did you like about those games, or systems?

[Eric R.]

I('ll Take Avalon Hill. Back in the day when wargaming was about pushing carbaord on a map with a hex grid AH was the top after all it was she who virtually invented the hobby. Games like Panzer Blitz, Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Gettysburg, Third Reich, and Squad leader all have a special place in my heart and storage space. Before Computers came along it was a challenge and many game seneded when it took an hour just to set the game up and at first it seemed computers would be the saving grace but then came RTS and Shooters and real wargames died out. I still love the thrill of opening a new game. the rule book's pages still bearly cut and ripping gently as you opened page by page, the look of an unpuched countersheet, the streaching sound of opening a real mounted mapboard for the first time.

[spyone]

Heck, even once computers came along, Avalon Hill continued to set the standard for quality product.
Their subdivision "Microcomputer Games" made 4 of the finest games I have every played in the days when graphics were done by drawing pictures in text.

I managed to find a version of Midway Campaign for download, but what I really was hoping to find was Planet Miners. I had them all once for the TRS-80, but it has been dead and gone for so long that it is a fading memory.

Extending the biology metaphor, I'm not sure we're really out of the dinosaur days yet: the first round of competitors got wiped out, but one of the old dinosaurs has survived, and it has grown enormous by eating the dying. However, while it is large and powerful it is also bloated and not really suited to compete, so lots of upstart new critters are taking a shot at it. But it is VERY large, and therefore very powerful.

It is the brontisaurus of the gaming industry: good eating if you can take it down, but it's hard to even annoy something that large.

[spshu]

<snip>
When the CCG Meteor struck the hobby, emanating primarily from the Decipher Expanse, it released much market share into the upper atmosphere, blanketing the land with d20 mana, and thus the mammal companies:

<snip>

WOTC

<snip>

Not to be too snippy, but WOTC was the ground zero for the CCG market as they created that market and held the main movers -- Magic the Gathering and for a while Pokemon. Decipher started out as a "Murder mystery" party game maker then jumped on the CCG market, although they did have Star Wars CCGs on top of Star Trek CCGs at one time.

Of course, companies still exist in some form or another so in some respect they are not exactly extinct but it still has enough parallels to it. IE, ICE exist as two companies now. AH, SPI (coming via both AH & TSR) & TSR are part of WOTC.

[Cut]

This is quite off topic, I'm sorry for that, but Avalon Hill produces one of my favorite board games "RoboRally". And for that I'm thankful

[LUGTrekGM]

I loved Avalon HIll's games. I was a wargamer, before I was a roleplayer.

It's just nearly impossible to find opponents for those old games now.

[Eric R.]

I heard that!

[spyone]

My older brothers favorite game when I was small was Stocks and Bonds. It was too complicated for me to learn, and none of the neighbors would play with them, so they played against each other. (Games invlving me and the neighbor's kids were Risk, Clue, and Life. They needed to include 6 players ages 14 to 4 to get everyone. )

Growing up, everyone I knew who cared about games at all thought highly of Avalon Hill.

(For those keeping score at home, WotC itself is now part of Hasbro, which also owns Parker Brothers and Milton Bradley, who were the makers of those other fine games I mentioned above.)

[Sho-sa Kurita]

I was reminded of this thread in the 'RPG Industry Screwed' thread.

I miss GDW for both wargames and RPGs. Space 1889/Sky Galleons of Mars and Twilight 2000 anyone? Those games had fantastic worlds and rules that reflected them well. Flawless? No. But very enjoyable. I also have something called Last Battle which was a wargame set in T2K, and is about on par with BattleTech for detail, maybe a little less.

Oh, and Traveller

[Phoenix]

Does Hero System count as one of your Dino Co's. It's still around, only slightly changed (it did however go through that Fusion System segway, but we do not speak of those dark times)

Thank You Steve, We love you!!!

[LUGTrekGM]

funny thing is that I recently found out. I had thought GURPS had invented the ADs/Disads system. Come to find out HERO pioneered the early concept.

Yeah HERO Games is one of those still surviving Dinosaurs.

With the release of Star Hero and hero 5th Edition, I guess it might qualify as a crocodile...still lots of bite left, lurking out there.

Recently my best friend broke out his 1st edition Twilight:2000 game, restarted it from scratch. We were all so inspired, I started setting up my own T2K 1e campaign, to run once every three weeks.

I liked Last Battle a lot, for the ease of use, as a light wargame. We have done our own maps for it, the geomorphic ones they issuesd with the game didn't quite give enough flavor, mostly those forested hills and a few rubbled towns.

With CC2, and city designer, it's a lot better now.

Thanks to all posting to this thread. I was begining to think I was the last of the old school die hard gamers/wargamers.

[REG]

Thanks to all posting to this thread. I was begining to think I was the last of the old school die hard gamers/wargamers.

Does Star Fleet Battles count as old-school? Used to play that during the 80's and early part of 90's.

[LUGTrekGM]

Yeah. I liked it when it was just Enterprise v D-7.

Once Fast Patrol Craft rules came out, I chucked it and stopped playing.

Even prior to that it was all sorts of arguments about rule X, no in Module Q there it said, but with exception 4.2 case 4. Oh wait unless thew gorn anchor is in effect or it is phase 17.

Too many rules, but yeah old school.

I gave all my SFB away years ago to other Navy guys who lived for presenting their case to the jury in-game.

The arguments for and against certain interpretations or cases became the game to them. Arguments at 1 or 2AM would nearly lead to fistfights. Just no longer my dance, at all, at that point.

All I wanted to do was fire double overloaded Photon torps and then make an HET and get out of dodge. And I hated the concept of ESG, and drones.

I went back to my much beloved FASA Star Trek Starship combat Simulator. (Pre LUG Rules coming out, of course).

[REG]

Too many rules, but yeah old school.

Heh. What were we thinking back then? To have such a cool set of rules written in the form of a county ordinance.



And because I didn't have my own dot-matrix printers back then, I've been making nearly daily trips to my local Kinko's with cut-and-paste (and white-out) starship SSDs to make copies.

[tonyg]

Heh. What were we thinking back then? To have such a cool set of rules written in the form of a county ordinance.



And because I didn't have my own dot-matrix printers back then, I've been making nearly daily trips to my local Kinko's with cut-and-paste (and white-out) starship SSDs to make copies.

A sign of the times. Back them, most games used to write up specilized systems for each aspect of play rather than using a core task resoultion system for everything. So, as every expansion came out, they had thier own subrules that had to mesh with the core game. by the time you got to Expansion #3 it had gooten very concoluted.

BTW, There are so progrmas out there that do automated SSD's for printing, if you are still playing it.

ALso, ADB has a new game out based on SFB that is much more streamlined/easier to play. Rougly the same game, but they got rid of a lot of the bookkeeping. You no longer fill out power allocations, but simply pay for things as you go. There are fewer impulses per round to help spped things along. The new Game (FEDERATION COMMANDER) comes with laminated (reusuable) SSD's in color. It seems they are trying to keep this game one of fighting action as opposed to legal action.