Registered User
I doubt anything about Christianity has any similarity to psionics. That shuffling wouldn't undermine the importance of my religion.
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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!
Registered User
I am reminded of a Voyager episode where Janeway is undergoing some alien religious ritual where the aliens want to explore her spirituality, and Janeway says "I guess I made science my religion." (or words to that effect).
Seems to be a popular faith in Starfleet.
The recent talk about psionics reminds me of a book I read for school.
Very long story cut short, the author's thesis was that the foundation of investigation of ESP was scientists who were devout Christians trying to reconcile their beliefs in scientific explanation with the accounts of miracles. Basicly, if Saint such-and-such is said to have levitated, you must accept that he did or that your religious texts can be innacurate. Then, you must believe that you can detect, study, and duplicate the forces that allowed him to levitate, or you must accept that there are forces at work in your world that you cannot detect, study, measure, and re-create.
The author's thesis was that the men who began searching for evidence of psychic powers were looking for a universe where their Christian texts were not innacurate, but where everything could be studied and understood.
(As an aside, his presentation was lacking. My report on the work began with "This is the most stultifyingly dull book I have ever read. It was so dull that I found myself unable to remain awake while reading it, no matter how well rested I was when I began reading. This problem was so great that in the 6 weeks I had to read this book, I only completed 3 chapters.")
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Registered User
Would the Icon rules allow for psionic powers that depend on a God? I don't see Bajoran Prophet- worship having anything to do with psionics. I would be surprised and amused if Decipher Trek were to include mechanics concerning the otherworldly aspects of Earth religions.
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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!
Registered User
Well ......
Kai Opaka and other vedeks seem to be able to "sense your pah" by placing a hand behind your ear.
Is this a perception granted to them by the Prophets? Or is this a form of telepathy they naturally have, perhaps developed through training they recieve as part of their Vedek training?
As I see it, it is open to interpretation. I could see two Vedeks arguing over this very point, with one maintianing that the power comes from being directly touched by the Prophets while the other argues that the Prophets placed the potential into some or all Bajorans as a genetic trait for telepathy, but it was devloped through simple training that would work on anyone, religious or not.
In an RPG context, powers derived from God (or any god-like entity) can be a real problem. Basicly, all powers available to a PC should either be delivered capriciously, as Orb Visions could be (I'm afraid you see nothing. Apparently the Prophets decline to help you make this decision), or need to be based of of a _quantifyable_ characlter trait (You're praying for a Miracle? Okay, roll against your Faith ...).
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Registered User
*shrug*
Re. Psionics and Christianity
I suspect that I am creeping out onto very
thin ice, but I'd say that the understanding
and widespread matter-of-fact acceptance of
psionics would undermine the importance of
things like many of the miracles performed by
the saints, speaking-in-tongues, faith-
healing, and so forth.
Re. Religion and those "Energy Beings"
And the "Star Trek" universe is also
positively infested by "energy beings." Some
might not be well-known, but the reality of
others (notably the Organians, who had a
*major* effect upon the course of Klingo-
Federation history) would be undisputed.
The existence of "energy beings" would,
undoubtedly, give theologians plenty of
headaches. In the "Star Trek" universe, the
ancient Greek gods were really "just"
advanced alien visitors. Some might leap to
the conclusion that other religions had
similiar origins...
Registered User
I think of Trek religions like the Bajoran Faith as the misguided worship of beings who are advanced, but who I wouldn't call divine. I find it interesting that the Klingon Faith is treated as true.
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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!
Registered User
Re. Klingon Religion
*dons fireproof suit*
Perhaps because the central event of
Klingon theology is an act of rebellion
against the gods, leading up to successful
deicide?
Seriously, though...it fits (in a kind of
brutish, nasty, Klingon way) with the whole
"Star Trek" notion of transcending the need
for faith, and striking out into the
universe armed solely with self-confidence,
rationality, and the scientific method.
But perhaps I'm reading too much into it...
Registered User
I wouldn't say the Klingon faith is treated as true, per se. It is treated with some reverance, but ....
The only time the Klingon faith factored in, that I can recall, where it was anything other than someone's spiritual beliefs was when Belanna visited the afterlife, and this was neatly done as it was left open whether this was a true experience or just an hypoxic hallucination. All the groundwork was there for her to just have been halucinating, prompted into these visions by her subconscious, but she chose to interpret it in a spiritual context. IIRC, it was unresolved as of "Endgame" whether her Mother is in fact dead.
On the flip side, Neelix had a crisis of faith when he died and did NOT visit the afterlife he had expected.
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Registered User
Klingon faith is like Romulan faith. It is faith in themselves, as individuals and as a species.<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cochrane:
I think of Trek religions like the Bajoran Faith as the misguided worship of beings who are advanced, but who I wouldn't call divine. I find it interesting that the Klingon Faith is treated as true.
</font>
Klingon mythology holds that they killed all their gods, because they were too much trouble.
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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain
Registered User
I do agree that Trek is largely about outgrowing faith, but I think I might modify that if I ever play the RPG.
I think Lanna really was in the Afterlife. I actually find myself hoping that the Elder Mrs. Torres truly is dead and proving it, although I'd enjoy seeing a reunion with her in the mortal world.
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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!
Registered User
I'm not sure I like the idea of a "Star
Trek" universe in which the details of
*anybody's* favorite brand of theology are
correct, but I do find the prevailing notion
that the universe is fully comprehensible to
anyone who is rational and "reasonable"
enough vaguely distasteful. I've always
felt that there is something *arrogant*
about "utopia-through-technophilia", and
that there ought to be things that are just
too old, too big, too complex, too powerful,
too subtle, and too *alien*, for human beings
to comprehend...
...a good "bit" from a Saberhagen novel
entitled "Berserker Man":
A metallic ring which is absolutely and
*perfectly* circular. If, however, you
measure its circumference and its diameter,
and then divide the former by the latter,
you will notice that Pi, at least as far as
this particular ring is concerned, is exactly
*three*.
I suggest casually dropping this strange
alien artifact into your campaign, without
fanfare or explanation. Just let the PCs
find it in, say, a footlocker in the
wreckage of a tramp freighter, with a spare
pair of socks, a half-empty bottle of Romulan
Ale, and a few less esoteric alien odds and
ends. Do something to draw attention to it
(it's wrapped up in a richly-embroidered
piece of silken cloth), but let the PCs
discover its secret on their own. Then let
them got nuts, trying to figure out what it
is, what (if anything) it does, where it
came from, how old it is, so forth... The
mystery ring, incidentally, has *nothing* to
do with whatever happened to that
freighter, or why the PCs are aboard it...
Registered User
Starfleet Chaplain Overlay
Administration (Interfaith Organizations) 1 (3) (Starship Personnel) (2)
Artistic Expression (Vocal Music) 1 (2)
Charm (Influence) 1 (2)
Computer (Research) 0 (1)
Culture (appropriate religious culture) 2 (3)
First Aid (choose specialization) 0 (1)
History (Federation) 1 (2) (Religion of one planet) (2)
Language, Federation Standard 1
Law (Starfleet Regulations) 1 (2) (Religious Codes) (2)
Medical Sciences (Psychology) 1 (2)
Personal Equipment (Universal Translator) 0 (1)
Persuasion (Counseling) 2 (3) (Oratory) (3)
Shipboard Systems (Communications) 0 (1)
Social Sciences (Anthropology) 1 (2) (Sociology) (2)
Theology (Comparative Theology) 3 (4) (choose specific religion or faith) (4)
Starfleet designates a few of its ships to those officers who feel a need for a chaplain. Many chaplains know mainly about a variety of religions from one species or world.
I didn't bother to check the point total, and I know I left out some skills that are normally required for all starfleet officers, but I explain these by saying chaplains are a bit separated from other starfleet officers. I tried to make the point total as close as possible to normal without adding it up. Comments are welcome, as are suggestions. I think this is the first Overlay I ever created.
Early Life Packages
Christian Youth Seminary:
Theology (Christian) 1 (2)
History (Christan) 1 (2)
+1 willpower OR +1 empathy edge
Fanatic -2 OR Pacifism -2
Religious Family
Theology (choose) 1 (2)
Culture (choose) 1 (2)
+1 any edge, except psi edges for those who are not psionic
-2 Fanatic, Pacifism, Code of Honor, Intolerant, Obligation OR Weak Will disadvantage
Private Religious Tutelage
Theology (choose) 1 (2)
History (choose) 1 (2)
Patron +2, Arrogant -1, Argumentative -1
Advanced Training
Proffessional Seminary
Administration (religious order/ church) 1 (2)
Persuasion (Counseling) 1 (2)
Theology (choose) 1 (2)
Proffessional Career
Starship Chaplain
Theology (choose specific) 2 (4) (choose another (3)
Promotion +2 OPTIONAL: increase rank/ balance with Dependant -2, Hides Emotions -2, Obligation -2 to -3, and/ or Impulsive -1
Starbase Chaplain
Theology (comparative) 2 (4) (choose specific (3)
Promotion +2, OPTIONAL: increase rank/ balance with chronic pain -2, obsessive tendencies -3, and/ or weakness -2
Comparative Theologian
Theology (comparative) 3 (4) (choose specific) (4) (choose another) (4)
Argumentative -1, Rival -1
I guess some of the packages need a lot of work. comments and suggestions welcome.
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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!
[This message has been edited by Cochrane (edited 07-31-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Cochrane (edited 08-01-2001).]
Registered User
Oh yeah, feel free to add your own packages or whatever.
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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!
Registered User
I can't believe no one mentioned this, so I'm gonna =)
As we as a species moves closer to science, we move further from religion. There are more atheists and agnostics right now (myself being an agnostic) than there were in any point in history. Just three hundred years ago, the idea that there wasn't a god (or even might not be one) was completely absurd.
As we accelerate science beyond even the levels we have now, I believe we'll move even further from religion. We'll discover scientific trivia that seems to explain a good deal of mystical belief ("See this energy signature? It seems to be released by the cerebral cortex at the moment of brain death... if these readings are right, the last image a dying person should see is a point of light, slowly growing brighter, as if moving through a dark tunnel toward it") Whether these explainations will be accurate or merely fit the expected findings I can't say, but more and more people will, in fact, believe them to be so.
By the time we get to anything as advanced as Star Trek, there will probably be very few believers left, but a sizable portion will, no doubt, still pay lip service to various religions (well, my religion says no pork... I'm not crazy about pork anyway, so I'll go along with it). But those who have strong religious beliefs, to the point of it affecting their public everyday lives, will be most likely seen as a touch backwards, in the sense that we would look upon someone using leeches for medicine.
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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together
Moderator
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cochrane:
Starfleet Chaplain Overlay
Medical Sciences (Psychology) 0 (3)
</font>
On a technical note only...
The above skill cannot exist in ICON. Zero level specialisations can only exist as 1 point specialisation, after that level, the player must purchase the entire skill.
In the above example instead of the 3 DP for the example skill the character would either;
a - have the same DP total for the skill total of 2 (3)
or
b - pay a further 3 DP to get your recommended specialisation level of 2 (3).
As you said the points were not totalled, and the template as it stands totals 65 points, 9 points over the standard 56 point template.
On a personnal level I disagree with the over ubandance of zero point skills in an officers template.
I know that should ayone want a chaplain in my game they'll be taking a slightly altered version of the counselor template, as the many skills you dropped in favour of making the character the multi-skilled specialist (the kind that would only be required in a game heaviliy focused on religion, which if previous debates are to be believed would be rare), unforunatly, these dropped skills are the standard starfleet training that ALL officers attending the academy receive, for survival and multi-tasking purposes...
That is however just my opinion, and I will be happy to come up with the slightly altered version and post it here later.
The packages look fine though, although if you are going to have a Christian focused package, then you really should also add either alternates for ALL other known and canon alien religions, or better yet make it as 'widescale' as possible, using no names to allow it to apply to whatever religion is required.
Remember there are people that read the words and take them as written in stone (if you'll excuse the pun), rather than take an idea and alter it to suit the preferred religion.
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DanG.
"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk
[This message has been edited by Dan Gurden (edited 07-31-2001).]
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