Chaplains in Starfleet?

[Dan Gurden]

OK, here is my version of a chaplain, based off the counselor overlay, I see it as a slightly more balanced character, which is probably easier to do as (not being a religious type) I see Theology as a social science rather than a skill in its own right...

Administration (Starship Personnel) 2(3)
Persuasion (Counseling) 2(3) (Oratory) (3)
Social Sciences (Theology) 2(3), (Choose Specialisation) (3)
Medical Sciences (Psychology) 1(2)
or
First Aid (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)

Athletics (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Computer (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Dodge 2
Energy Weapon (Phaser) 1(2)
History (Federation) 1(2), (Chosen Religion) (2)
Language
Federation Standard 1
Choose Language 1
Law (Starfleet Regulations) 1(2)
Planetside Survival (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Vehicle Operation (Shuttlecraft) 1(2)

Pacifist -1

I feel the slightly more rounded crewmember would be better represented in the average game, without sacrificing what they are to effectiveness in a game that doesn't feature religion.

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DanG.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Traska:
I can't believe no one mentioned this, so I'm gonna =)

As we as a species moves closer to science, we move further from religion.

</font>

I have to disagree on this point. CS Lewis once said that it takes less faith to believe in a Creator than to believe in Evolution.

To believe in a Creator takes only a single act of faith... to believe in the Creator's existance.

To believe in Evolution one has to believe that thousands of events transpired in a particular order producing the current result. Any one of those thousands of events going awry would have resulted in something else, or nothing at all.

This assumes, of course, that what we consider humanity and sentience is something special... which I assume as a default, since if we're not then there's no point to anything. It's sort of like Pascal's Wager.

In any case, the evidence for at least limited evolution is irrefutable... however, it also seems clear that evolution doesn't hold the entire answer. Therefore I personally subscribe to Creator-directed evolution. I also believe that no human religion has pinned down the nature of the Creator... and we probably aren't meant to. The universe was created for exploring, and we were created to explore it.

There: a harmonious combination of Science and Religion... of Reason and Faith.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dan Gurden:
OK, here is my version of a chaplain, based off the counselor overlay, I see it as a slightly more balanced character, which is probably easier to do as (not being a religious type) I see Theology as a social science rather than a skill in its own right...

Administration (Starship Personnel) 2(3)
Persuasion (Counseling) 2(3) (Oratory) (3)
Social Sciences (Theology) 2(3), (Choose Specialisation) (3)
Medical Sciences (Psychology) 1(2)
or
First Aid (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)

Athletics (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Computer (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Dodge 2
Energy Weapon (Phaser) 1(2)
History (Federation) 1(2), (Chosen Religion) (2)
Language
Federation Standard 1
Choose Language 1
Law (Starfleet Regulations) 1(2)
Planetside Survival (Choose Specialisation) 1(2)
Vehicle Operation (Shuttlecraft) 1(2)

Pacifist -1

I feel the slightly more rounded crewmember would be better represented in the average game, without sacrificing what they are to effectiveness in a game that doesn't feature religion.

</font>

Very interesting, and workable...

My personal take is that ordained individuals would fill the standard roles aboard ship (the Science officer might be a Buddist priest, the Counselor a Catholic priest, etc...) which would be separate from their role as religious leaders.

Many Counselors might be ordained... but an ordained individual wouldn't HAVE to be a Counselor if they wanted to join Starfleet, and and ordained individual who was a Counselor would minister, in their role as Counselor, to any crewmember. The religious role of crewmembers would be secondary and unofficial in Starfeet's eyes
(though likely informally coordinated by the Ship's Counselor).

One of the reasons for this is that with the hundreds of Human religions, multiplied by the number of Federation species would make having the correct religious representative impossible. The US military is having this problem already... and we don't have to worry about Vulcans, Andorians, etc.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Traska]

What I meant is this. As a species, we are moving further from religious, that much is unmistakable. Hence, we are moving away from religion, for religion is just the unified theory connecting a number of smaller theories. As we gain more scientific knowledge, science is sure to explain (or convincingly seem to explain) many of the concepts we theorize in religion today.

As more and more of the unknowable becomes known, more and more people will begin to believe that the universe isn't so mystical, and perhaps face value is all we have.

That is the core of my belief system regarding religion vs science... as we move closer to one, we move further from the other, as a species.



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together

[Antonsb214]

Scene: You are aboard a new ship on its first REAL warp test. The tech said, "It did fine." But don't tell me it doesn't take faith to flip the warp drive switch or that there wasn't a muffled prayer somewhere on board.

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"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"

[Lord Kjeran]

Chello!

If scientific advancement precludes devout religion, explain then, in Trek:

1. the Vulcans who practice a mysticism which borders on religious;

2. The Klingons, who have a mystical religion centered on Kahless;

3. the Bajorans;

4. the Bteazoids; well, maybe they're more hedonists or epicureans, but their rituals celebrate Life.

Just an idea or two.

BTW, Dan, I like Dan's overlay the best (thus far!). Cochrane, your life packages rock; I say I like Dan's overlay better because it is closer to what I envision. Good work, guys!

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"We are Klingons!"

Cmdr. Kruge, ST III

[This message has been edited by Lord Kjeran (edited 07-31-2001).]

[Cochrane]

I edited the overlay. I figure the higher levels I had before can be added by packages. The reason I didn't have packages for other specific religions is that I am not an authority on those subjects. However, I may add packages for Andorians, Vulcans, Centaurans, Betazoids, Bwuutut, Mensaeans, Setif, Vaan, Bajorans, etc.

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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!

[This message has been edited by Cochrane (edited 07-31-2001).]

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Traska:
What I meant is this. As a species, we are moving further from religious, that much is unmistakable. Hence, we are moving away from religion, for religion is just the unified theory connecting a number of smaller theories. As we gain more scientific knowledge, science is sure to explain (or convincingly seem to explain) many of the concepts we theorize in religion today.

As more and more of the unknowable becomes known, more and more people will begin to believe that the universe isn't so mystical, and perhaps face value is all we have.

That is the core of my belief system regarding religion vs science... as we move closer to one, we move further from the other, as a species.
</font>

I disagree... or perhaps a better way to put it is that we are becoming less religious and more spiritual. Religions developed as a way to explain unexplainable events. As science grew, most of these events have been explained... indeed, they were explained decades or centuries ago.

Howver, science can't explain "why"... why are we here, for what purpose?

I find it extremely unsatisfying that the scientific answer might be "because an amino adic mutated"...

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Phantom]

Science has proven many things in the Bible could have possibly happened for scientific reasons. I for one say "so what?" Science is the explantion of the natural world, our limited explantion of it. There are things out there that science will never be able to explain (like Why? And don't say why not), sorry but that is just the way it is. I'll stop now as this thread is not a discussion on the basics of religion and faith.

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In the Praetors Name!

[Traska]

Okay, y'all are clearly misunderstanding me.

What I am saying is that we, Mankind, the Human race, are moving away from religion. That's point one... and I don't think it's a stretch to claim that. I happen to believe it's due to our discovering more and more scientific knowledge regarding things that before were explained purely on basis of belief in deity.

And religion and spirituality aren't the same thing at all. It's possible to have faith but not religion. I have faith that tomorrow the sun will rise... but I don't think some guy's pulling it along in a chariot. Similarily, I hope and wish for things, but I don't pray for them.

I think that our species will continue this trend toward looking to science for answers instead of religion, and when that happens religion is sure to take a backseat.

Now, that's not to say that it won't be around during something like Star Trek... I just think it won't be the defining belief of a person's life.



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together

[Dan Gurden]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cochrane:
The reason I didn't have packages for other specific religions is that I am not an authority on those subjects. </font>

A wise decision...

But not quite what I meant, I thought that for the peolpe that dont think outside the box, the single focus of the Christian Religion in amongst all the other generalised packages could be taken the wrong way (and lets face it, we argue about religion semi-regularly on these boards). As an example;

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cochrane:
Early Life Packages

Christian Youth Seminary:
Theology (Christian) 1 (2)
History (Christan) 1 (2)
+1 willpower OR +1 empathy edge
Fanatic -2 OR Pacifism -2
</font>

Early Life Packages

Religious Youth Seminary:
This Package is designed to represent a focused up-bringing in religious surroundings, common with children at schools run by religions who go on to study to become practitioners and ministers of their chosen faith.

Theology (Specific Religion) 1 (2)
History (Specific Religion) 1 (2)
+1 willpower OR +1 empathy edge
Fanatic -2 OR Pacifism -2

The package is innofensive enough, but by swapping the word Christian for a choice then suddenly opens the package to all religious beliefs without the need to re-wtite the same package over and over with a single word change.

NOTE: Remember I got where your coming from, but feel that rules additions should be easily read and understood, that the meaning can be mis-interpreted far to easily, and that when dealing with religion, already a touchy subject, the need to 'nerf pad' the world becomes even greater...


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DanG.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

[Cochrane]

Edited the overlay again.

------------------
Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!

[Phantom]

Grumpy,

Can you cite evidence of this "sneering contempt?" I don't remember any in the TNG, Voy or DS9.

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In the Praetors Name!

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Phantom:
Grumpy,

Can you cite evidence of this "sneering contempt?" I don't remember any in the TNG, Voy or DS9.

</font>

It is true that, with the exception of DS9, virtually every religion/ spiritual-oriented character in Trek was a villan or otherwise an example of intolerance or unenlightened thought... or was aprimative who couldn't be expected to "know any better".

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Flamestrike]

The only thing I've seen as negative towards spiritual beliefs in TNG was the episode where Troi was held captive planet side, and Picard broke the Prime Directive, getting shot with an arrow at the end.

Everything else I've seen has led me to believe that Starfleet personel keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves, except where they might interfere with their ship(or station)-board duties, such as a passifist not being forced to carry weapons while on away missions, etc. This would prevent personal conflicts rather than infringe on religious rights-- everyone agrees to dis-agree rather than bicker about who's god is better, as some religions are wont to do..

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Even in this age of technological wonders, the human mind is still the most powerful weapon in the universe.