Chaplains in Starfleet?

[Lord Kjeran]

Greetings!

Has anyone ever thought about this? Would there be? Maybe as an assisstant or subordinate to the Ship's Consulor?

If so, what humna religions would be allowed/most common? Unitarians? Buddhists? Taoists?

I just can't believe that all humans in the future are non-religious.



------------------
"We are Klingons!"

Cmdr. Kruge, ST III

[Paul]

* Keeping stricly to topic, and avoiding any reference to religious beliefs *

I think there would be Chaplains in Starfleet, serving on vessels. However, I doubt that they would be active Starfleet personnel, as their religious and spiritual duties to and for the rest of the crew would not allow time for them to fulfil their duties to Starfleet or to the ship.

More likely, IMHO, Chaplains would be civilian crew members attached to the Medical department (maybe answering to the ship's counsellor), and could be found working on any ship of Size 5 or larger (anything else is relly getting too small for the crew needs and ship facilities).

In any event, a Chaplain's duties would be limited to the observing of religious occasions and ceremonies - Marriages and Funerals are presided over by the ship's Captain (or Commanding Officer), and Births are handled by the Medical staff. Any serious religious events or beliefs are usually taken by the being concerned back to his homeworld, or to the nearest convenient facility.

As to their religious persuasion - in order to be effective, they would need to be grounded in quite a few major religions, and working knowledge of some of the smaller ones. The training required for this alone would not allow time to enlist in Starfleet (maybe some basic training in ship's procedures and systems). Similarly, chapels would have to be rather neutral in design and decoration, so as to be able to cater for the many beliefs out there. Otherwise, you could need up having one chaplian for every 10 crewmen, and 1 chapel per race on board - and most ships simply aren't that big, nor have such wide-ranging capacity for all of the religious support required.

------------------
"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 06-29-2001).]

[Lord Kjeran]

Chello!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paul:
As to their religious persuasion - in order to be effective, they would need to be grounded in quite a few major religions, and working knowledge of some of the smaller ones. The training required for this alone would not allow time to enlist in Starfleet (maybe some basic training in ship's procedures and systems). Similarly, chapels would have to be rather neutral in design and decoration, so as to be able to cater for the many beliefs out there.
</font>

And there was a chapel in canon..."ST:TOS Balance of Terror."

That's also why I mentiooned Unitarians....they'd be the type to appreciate all religions the best (at least Human anyway ).

[Dan Stack]

Uh oh....

Dan's personal opinion - I suspect that most human beliefs would survive to the 23rd and 24th centuries. The structures of the religions would be different, but the core beliefs would remain. Contact with aliens would change many religions, create new ones, and cause some to end. I see Babylon 5 as the most realistic portrayal of religion in the future.

Dan's opinion of religion on Star Trek - I believe that the Federation would allow any religion. However, it is my opinion that by the 24th century of Star Trek most humans are either agnostic or atheist, given the overwhelming attitude towards religion shown by Starfleet figures.

[Flamestrike]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dan Stack:
Dan's opinion of religion on Star Trek - I believe that the Federation would allow any religion. However, it is my opinion that by the 24th century of Star Trek most humans are either agnostic or atheist, given the overwhelming attitude towards religion shown by Starfleet figures. </font>

Well, IMHO, it's not that Gene's vision of the future is non-religious, it's just that
Kirk, Picard and company keep their religious beliefs on a personal level and out of their professional lives where they could become a bone of contention, so to speak...

------------------
Even in this age of technological wonders, the human mind is still the most powerful weapon in the universe.

[spyone]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lord Kjeran:
Chello!

And there was a chapel in canon..."ST:TOS Balance of Terror."
</font>

A chapel does not, nessicarily, denote a Chaplain. Most hospitals have a chapel which is just a room set aside for prayer and/or religious services. Any visiting clergy can use it, as can people of any faith. I envision most Starfleet facilities, including vessels, having one of those, even if it is just an auditorium that may be reserved for private use. Basicly, I'd think Starfleet would treat religions like any other social group (no gurantees of religious holidays off, but we will try, just like we try to let the guys on the baseball team have time off for practice).

Chaplains are another matter.
IMO, the main role of a Chaplain in in environment like Starfleet would be twofold: he would officiate religous ceremonies, and he would offer spiritual councelling. e would be required, as Army Chaplains are today, to offer these services to crewmembers of all faiths.
On a Starfleet Ship, many of the cerimonial aspects overlap duties of the Captain, such as performing weddings.
As for the counceling aspect, today we see many clergy who have advanced degrees in counceling because their job overlaps strongly with more secular types of councelors, and I expect this trend to continue into the future.
Simply, I do not think there would be Chaplains as such, but I do think that a high percentage of Ships' Councelors would be ordained clergy.

------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[Jonathan Talbot]

In this case, I think Religion iin Star Trek has taken a back seat, people have managed to get over the My religion is the One and only true religion,and they have embraced the fact that all religions are right for whomever. The way this Universe is set up, Mankind got a wake up call after the third world war, when it reliazed that to go on with such a philosiphy was not only productive, but down right stupid. I think there would be a chaplin, but look more to the support end of a Starship, like Recreation or something similiar.


------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer

[qerlin]

I've always found the anti-religion aspect of Star Trek interesting...most seem to think religion is somehow inherently bad; primordial superstition.

But there are certain metaphysical points to religion that even the 'particle of the week' science of Trek hasn't accounted for. Religion fills in that void -- albeit unscientifically. It can be very comforting.

It also provides a set of moral and societal norms. There's a lot of opposition to the idea of religiously-imposed norms, but I would suggest that even secular ones are usually couched in the same basic norms that almost every religion shares: don't kill people, don't steal stuff, try not to piss other people off unnecessarily, concentrate on being a good person.

I think there's a place for religion in Trek; it is a great way to flesh out a character or even a race. The different religions of some of our characters makes for great differences in their world outlook and philosophy. It also provides great material for character interaction.

[Lord Kjeran]

Chello!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by spyone:

A chapel does not, nessicarily, denote a Chaplain. </font>

I did not say that it did. I know better than to use suxh a logical fallacy. I was responding to Paul's post where he says:

"Similarly, chapels would have to be rather neutral in design and decoration, so as to be able to cater for the many beliefs out there."

The point being that the chapel shown in BoT is neutral in design.

Also, many officers could presumedly keep a religious shrine in their quarters such as Spock's "meditation nook" show in both TOS, ST2, and ST6. And, a holodeck can also double as a chapel...just load the appropriate program.

[spyone]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lord Kjeran:
And, a holodeck can also double as a chapel...just load the appropriate program.

</font>

"Computer, one Gothic Catholic Cathedral. One Priest, Irish. Decorations appropriate to the worship of the Bajoran Prophets. Begin program."
Religion of choice?

The only real problem I see is that several of our current major religions require clergy with certain qualifications, like ordination or some kind of testing to achieve that level. Those religions that emphasize individual worship, do not require regular attendance of meetings officiated by an authority, or better still recognize the ability of any member of the faith to serve as clergy would definitely have a leg up in integrating into such a multi-cultural environment.

[sigh]
Life was so much easier when all the people in your country, and thus in your government services, shared a single faith.

------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[John Raynor]

I suspect that as far as Starfleet (and, in
all likelihood, the Federation as a whole)
is concerned, "religion" and "spirituality"
tend to be regarded as "slightly eccentric
hobbies." In my opinion, most of the
Federation's citizens (at least its human
ones), are either agnostic, atheistic, or
subscribe to either some vague form of deism
(with a passive "clock-maker" deity), or
some equally vague flavor of pantheism.
Nobody thinks about it very much. A more
concrete, well-defined kind of religion is
probably fine (I.D.I.C., and all that,
y'know), but getting really excited about it
is regarded as a vaguely disreputable
eccentricity.

Re. chaplains...
It's a hobby. Starfleet doesn't recognize
chaplains, but if there happen to be several
members of the Centaurian Reorganized
Orthodox Congregation of Trans-Gnostic
Believers serving aboard the same vessel,
they can probably reserve the use of a
holodeck (or, in the T.O.S. era, the ship's
chapel, if there is one), for their Tuesday
evening Sabbath services, perhaps with the
"most-qualified" member leading the rituals
(some religions might allow "holo-clergy,"
I suspect most would not).

Whether they get to use the holodeck *every*
Tuesday will depend upon how the officer in
charge of the holodeck feels about Centaurian
Trans-Gnosticism. They might have to
squabble with, say, ship's intra-mural
full-contact zero-G soccer league now and
then...

[Jonathan Talbot]

Okay, the way things appear is that religion on the Whole is givin a passing nod, If you are Christian fine, If you are Wiccan fine, If you are Centuarian Trans Gothic(See above post) Fine, as long as it is not forced on others and rammed down throats it is all good. Now there might be Chaplians there might not be, givin that the Captain of any Starshipas with any sailing ship is also in charge of the wedding (He/She is the Officiator)

Could there be a Chaplian, I would think so? , but imagine the Courses that person would have to go through. Human Religion 101-105, Vulcan Mysticsm 101-110, Regulan Beliefs , so on and so on!!!.

Man My head would spin.

------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer

[LCM]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dan Stack:

Dan's personal opinion - I suspect that most human beliefs would survive to the 23rd and 24th centuries. The structures of the religions would be different, but the core beliefs would remain. Contact with aliens would change many religions, create new ones, and cause some to end. I see Babylon Five as the most realistic portrayal of religion in the future.</font>

The best thing about religion in the future, once we've achieved the stars, will be the grudging abandonment of millennial and apolcalyptic thinking. Despite the pessimistic and often illogical interpretation of books like Daniel and Revelation, it is doubtful that God created such a vast universe merely as a backdrop to the happenings on our squalid little planet.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Dan's opinion of religion on Star Trek - I believe that the Federation would allow any religion. However, it is my opinion that by the 24th century of Star Trek most humans are either agnostic or atheist, given the overwhelming attitude towards religion shown by Starfleet figures. </font>

Later Trek is clearly hostile to religion: I held my gorge only with difficulty at some of the rhetoric placed into Picard's mouth during the TNG episodes "Devil's Due" and "Who Watches the Watchers."

I know many say, "What about DS9? They're respectful to religion on that show." I'm not certain I agree with that assessment. Starfleet seems always to regard Bajoran faith with an edge of skepticism/disdain... and the fact that not a single human espouses one of today's dominant religions speaks volumes in its silence.

On Star Trek, "religion" too often seems synonymous with "fanaticism" and "superstition," while the word "spiritual" has been emasculated by the all encompassing "I'm OK, your OK" pablum of late 20th century psychobabble.

[John Raynor]

Keep in mind that much of what we would
consider either "spiritual" or "occult"
falls into the catagory of "psionics" in
the "Star Trek" universe. Although the
degree to which psionics is understood
scientifically is unclear, it generally
seems to be taken for granted, and accepted
(or rejected) merely as itself, rather than
as a manifestation of supernatural power.
An inhabitant of the Federation might fear
and/or distrust psionicists ("...those sneaky
telepaths, reading our minds and taking
advantage of us...") but would regard them
as, say, minions of Satan.

Matter-of-fact acceptance of psionics does
tend to undermine the importance of religion,
if only by shuffling so much out of the
catagory of "the miraculous."

[John Raynor]

Oops!

I meant to say, would never regard
them as minions of Satan.

Big mistake. Sorry.