Legal Ramifications?

[Robbert Raets]

I put my vote on the CO & the XO. Starfleet is a militairy organisation, and if they can't trust their officers in dangerous situations, they'd just as well surrender to the Dominion.

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Your past does not excuse unethical or immoral behavior, sir.
- Data, to Kivas Fajo, the most toys

[Makklor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rixx Telar:


1. The Complaining officer (the ships security officer) actually asked for a surprise training mission.

</font>

If he asked for the training and did not specify what he wanted, then it was up to the CO & the XO to interpret the request however they seem fit. The ships security officer has no right to lodge a complaint, to do so would be considered entrapment. I believe that, if he proceeds to push this issue and because of past differences of opinion, the CO & the XO have the right to have the security officer transferred to another assignment. This is do to the fact that it is undermining the trust of the crew in the command structure of the ship. Who wants to see their captain be questioned about every decision he makes, especially by the security chief.

So, time to make a new character, Mr. security chief.

My 2 bits
Makklor

[Evan van Eyk]

I think somewhere up is mentioned that the players were even assimilated. I think this is unacceptable. The Borg are the worst threat to the Federation, not accepting any right of the individual or human rights.
Basicly the CO did the same. He let them be assimilated and denied their human rights of self-determination and individuality.
I think if 39 Ships were destroyed in battle of Wolf 359 and Earth nearly was assimilated in 2373 then Starfleet would not tolerate a CO who assimilates ( even if simulated there is a special mental stress which will probably cause mental diseases ) his subordinates just for fun or testing them. Even if Starfleet Command views his deed as not that critical the Federation public would see it as highly immoral because of the thousands of lives which were lost fighting the Borg. And still the Officers are Federation Citizens with all Human rights which may not be taken by any Command Officer or anyone else these are kind of sacred rights which the Captain has to defend with all afford and not deny he himself. He should be an example of trust and honor and not mislead his subordinates and betray all values the Federation stands for, fights for and if neccessary would die for.

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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI


www.farrealms.de

[Makklor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan van Eyk:
I think somewhere up is mentioned that the players were even assimilated. I think this is unacceptable. The Borg are the worst threat to the Federation, not accepting any right of the individual or human rights.
Basicly the CO did the same. He let them be assimilated and denied their human rights of self-determination and individuality.
</font>

This was a simulation in the holodeck, not the real thing. As of the assimilation, unless they added the brain control devices from that Voyager episode with the hunters and the holodeck, there is no way that the crewpeople could have been forced into a hive mind. Holodecks just don’t work that way, they cannot read your thoughts. And as of the brain control devices, these should not have been used because they would have altered the results of the test. In which case, of what use would the test been for except, for testing the devices or the holodeck. In closing, since there was no assimilation, there was no denial of their human rights of self-determination and individuality.

Again, no wrong doing.

Makklor

[suicide junkie]

How did the assimilation thing work?

Was it a sort of fade-to-black, replace the crewman with a simulated borg drone, kind of thing, like you would do to simulate somebody dying?

[Rixx Telar]

The assimilation went as follows:

The ensign got dragged into another room...ala Data in FC...then as soon as the Borgs probe thing touched his neck the Ensign was beamed out and straight to medical for examination. The Ensign is then replaced by a holographic representation of a drone.

It was just a drill.

[Sarge]

IMO, that drill is fairly harsh, but fair. I don't agree that the crew would distrust their CO and XO after the drill. They ought to realize that the senior officers were doing their best to protect the crew by rigorous and realistic training exercises.

If I had gone through that kind of scenario, I'd just be glad I had a sneaky SOB for my CO. He'd be more likely than a by-the-book officer to keep me alive in a real war.

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&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

LUGTrek isn't really dead. Not as long as we remember it.

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rixx Telar:
The OCELOT SPEAKS....

5. The sad thing is the Character in question has Fanatacism of Starfleet. I feel as a Character he would Justify those situations due to his Fanatacism even If they were bad situations which I think they weren't. I have suggested to the GM to penalize him for not roleplaying his character correctly.

</font>

Well, the Starfleet Fanatic could present itself as wanting the best outcome possible for Starfleet for every situation. The character wants to avoid fights if he can, win the fight he must, train his fellow officers the best he can, etc.

This would be consistant with the arguments you said he gave. It does SF no good if the ship is destroyed without completing it's mission, or if SF officers are harmed for no reason, or whatever. The fact that he was wrong (or may be wrong) really doesn't enter into the equation, because you don't know that until later... hindsight is always 20/20.

It takes courage for a subordinate to tell his commander "Sir, you're making a mistake". It takes even more courage to do it more than once if you were wrong the first time.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Oh the shame! Oh the rumors!

German soldiers can not have long hair and beards. German reserve! soldiers on an exercise can, as long as it does not interfere with their duties. Otherwise hair nets and even a shave can be ordered. )</font>

My mistake. When I was stationed in Germany we worked with some German soldiers... I don't think they were reservists, but maybe they were.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Makklor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by calguard66:


It takes courage for a subordinate to tell his commander "Sir, you're making a mistake". It takes even more courage to do it more than once if you were wrong the first time.

</font>

I totally agree. My statements above, were do to the fact that it sounded to me and I might be miss reading it, like the Security chief was taking it too far. There is one thing to occasionally give your captain your opinion in private; it is a completely different thing to always second-guess your captain, especially in front of others.

Makklor

[qerlin]

Dunno, calguard, I used to tell my officers they were being stupid on a regular basis. They really appreciate it when you set them straight.

[calguard66]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Makklor:
I totally agree. My statements above, were do to the fact that it sounded to me and I might be miss reading it, like the Security chief was taking it too far. There is one thing to occasionally give your captain your opinion in private; it is a completely different thing to always second-guess your captain, especially in front of others.

Makklor </font>

Well... as they say: "Time and Place". Playing Devil's Advocate in the staff meeting isn't always a bad thing, and talking to the CO in private is the best way... but sometimes there isn't time.

However, from your description, it seems this Security Chief is just difficult.


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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Phantom]

Ok, I am an advocate of the more you sweat in drill, the less you bleed on the battlefield. I also think that SF needs more officers like Capt. E. Jellico.

Now, it seems to me that the Captain in this case is a "hard as nails" type of officer (see example above)...Good, exactly the type you need in a war. However, I fail to see how the sim he ran has any justification or use in the current political situation (ie. the Dominion War). He had the crew attacked by the Borg...Why? How does that prove how the crew will handle an attack by Jem'Hadar? The two forces use entirly differing "strategies" in their attack. I don't see the connection.

[Rixx Telar]

Phantom, the Borg were used because of the different strategies. We wanted the players to think fresh, keep them guessing and try find out what is happening while under great stress. If we used the Dominion then to the players, it would have been another battle and they would have shot first and asked questions later. With the Borg they could not just shoot them down. They had to find out what was going on.

So, there it is...

[qerlin]

Phantom, you'll be happy to know that in our campaign that's ADMIRAL Edward Jellico. He's the 16th Mobile commander now, with his flagship...Enterprise.

Picard's an admiral, as well; deputy chief of operations. Riker's a captain and on Starbase duty...guess he shouldn't have turned down all those command opportunities.