Aliens Book

[IKI]

In the Aliens book the are species that are very hard to play because they are a little over powered compared to the other ones.

So would it be possible to assign them some sort of Advancment or pick adjustment like the level adjustment they use in the D20 games.

This would alow character that start with more than 1 advancement to play a species like a founder or a Jhem' Hadar. The big question is how many advancement or picks (or a combination of both) do you need to sacrifice?

The easist way is to this is to analyse some of these species and give a pick value to each of their abilities. And then substract 16 points to get the adjustment value.

Has someone tried this already?

[IKI]

This is what I got for the Founders this far.

Founders:

Adjustment: 0 pt

Autocratic: 2 pt

Kinetic release: 24 pt

Link: 2

Natural Mimic: 10 pt


Shapechange: 49 = 24 (Mimicry) + 25 Invisible (Tricorders)

Total: 87 pt

Pick Adjustment = 13 advancements and 3 pick

[Ergi]

Interesting. However, I doubt that this approach will lead to equally powerful characters. Some NPC race abilities are simply too different from what normal characters can do. Therefore, IMHO, the usefulness of normal qualities (attributes, skills, ...) and special species powers (e.g. shape shifting) cannot be measured on the same scale, which would be a prerequisite for what you are trying to do.

[IceGiant]

And I believe that in the end we are trying to recreate Star Trek. Race balance isn't needed in my opinion because the races arn't equal. Some are better or worse than others. It's just biology (fake as it is). Because in the end ST is about the choices you make and actions you take the disparity in racial abilities is pretty irrelevant.

[Tobian]

Uhm... that's because letting players be a Founder makes you a mental person who wants to suffer at the hands of your players

Seriously though, just because it's possible, you don't have to allow someone to be something from the show, or else I would have half angosian supersoldier / genetic supermen, with founders and Borgs in their family tree *Shudders at the Ferengi Vulcan incident*

Generally speaking, if a race is outside the usual 'rule of thumb' stat range, for designing aliens for PC's I wouldn't let them be one.. I.e. No, despite the fact it's in Aliens, you can't play Gomtu's brother, no matter how much you beg

I am generally with Ice Giant here too, there doesn't need to be strict game ballance, and some species come with unwritten flaws anyway; The more you radically differ from the baseline, the more you will be isolated and seperate from the baseline crew.. You think Vulcans have a hard time, try being a half 'enemy of the week' - it's a major complication for that person to overcome! You have the Simon Tarses concept - you hide your heritage (hard if it's half shapeshifter or something which looks like a squid ) Here being a shapeshifter, especially if it's during a Dominion war setting, would be horrendous! You'd be lucky if you didn't spend your days in a stasis cube or a lab, let alone be socially shunned!

[Doug Burke]

And I believe that in the end we are trying to recreate Star Trek. Race balance isn't needed in my opinion because the races arn't equal. Some are better or worse than others. It's just biology (fake as it is). Because in the end ST is about the choices you make and actions you take the disparity in racial abilities is pretty irrelevant.

Honestly, i've always had a problem with how they do it in D&D anyway. For example, a hobgoblin has a level adjustment of +1 when they actually have even fewer abilities than (say) an elf...

Okay. you have your thread back, now...

[Tricky]

Just kinda chimeing in here, but beyond stats there is something to be said for the player: I've played characters before that the GM said he wouldn't let anyone else play because I understood the game and his ideas for it. (for the record, I was playing a way overpowered superhero who was based on 'silver age' comics traditions, so using his wide array of powers to devistate his enemies was out of the question.)

So, if you really have a need to play a founder, there are all sorts of rp restrictions that would keep them in line.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Uhm... that's because letting players be a Founder makes you a mental person who wants to suffer at the hands of your players

It's not that different from having one player be the captain and the others their subordinates. Of course, the captain can't execute characters on a whim... but Vorta come back, and Jem'Hadar don't last long anyways.

[C5]

I'd say this is more a question of roleplay than game statistic here. To play a character like a Founder or a Soong-type android would require maturity from the player as a pre-requisite, and is best balanced with an interesting roleplay.
For instance, a Founder would have to constantly hide his true nature, an android would try doing his best not to be disassembled and analysed, a rogue Jem'Hadar free from white addiction would try not to be noticed by his former unit, and so on...

Ruleswise, I think it's easier to impose such restrictions on a character than increase the abilities of the other characters. A Human PC with 50 advancements and a Stealth(+12) skill will never match a Founder disguising as a rock or mouse, so it's easier to restrict the "exceptional" character with special rules restrictions.
A Founder could be unable to mimic certain types of things (like Odo being unable to mimic a specific person), an android could have a very restrictive built-in "laws of robotics" limiting his actions, an holographic character could be backuped as will but never ever leave his holodeck (no 29th century portable hologenerator, no transferring to another part of the ship), an ex-Borg could still carrying useful implants but risking reverting to its original programming should it use them too much, and so on.
And playing Gomtuu's brother could be possible too... as long as the player remembers he can't beam down to the surface of a planet, can't communicate with non-telepathic species, risks depression if left alone for too long, and any other unusual cruelties the GM feels like inflicting on him.

This allows the players to play unusual characters, while the other players don't feel overshadowed, and the GM can still torture them at will

[Tobian]

[QUOTE=The Tatterdemalion King]It's not that different from having one player be the captain and the others their subordinates./QUOTE]

You assume I'm that mad to let one of my players command a Starship?!

Seriously yes, some people lack the ability to NOT abuse their characters abilities, and use them as a crutch, and fail to see that they have a whole bunch of other stuff on their character sheet and also fail to see the inherent flaw in munchkinishing their character with uber powerz! I have a few in my group *shudders at the recent memory of the 'Gun-Familiar' incident*

[The Tatterdemalion King]

[QUOTE=Tobian]

It's not that different from having one player be the captain and the others their subordinates./QUOTE]

You assume I'm that mad to let one of my players command a Starship?!

Seriously yes, some people lack the ability to NOT abuse their characters abilities, and use them as a crutch, and fail to see that they have a whole bunch of other stuff on their character sheet and also fail to see the inherent flaw in munchkinishing their character with uber powerz! I have a few in my group *shudders at the recent memory of the 'Gun-Familiar' incident*

Maybe their character sheet needs to have a 'Responsibilites of one's position' section on it or something.

[Tricky]

Along with what C5 said, I think playing a Founder (or maybe one of the 97 other young Changelings out there) in a post DW FED campaign would make for some really good role play, especially if it was 'one of the 100'; imagine being on the receiveing end of lots of distrust from people who were supposed to be 'beyond petty concepts like revenge' for things that you had no part in!

Thats some good drama!

[IKI]

Ok it may be over powered to let players choose powerful races as PC races. But it must be possible with some form of adjustment that the PC can choose a lesser powerfull race like the Jem'Hadar as PC race.
And even PC would choose to take a Founder with this adjustment system, he would have to give up 13 advancements. This means that if all players start with experienced characters of 15 advancements, he will only have 2 advancements to spend on skills and professional abilities. Making your founder PC good at shapeshifting (If he spends a a great portion of his 2 advancements in the Shapshift skill), and may be a good combat character (kinetic resistance), but that's all he is good at. He will have to grow stronger from that point on.

[danielcoffin]

here's another quick question: are denobulans, suliban, xindi, and remans featured in the aliens book? that would really come in handy before long. thanks!

daniel

[Tricky]

Only the Suliban appear in the Aliens book, which is odd, because they and Denobulins both appear in the First episode of ENT, so you would think they would included, but alas, they are not.

There are some home-brewed suppliments for ENT and ST:Nemesis, which cover the Xindi and Remulans, respectivly. There are links to those products and others(also of note is the ARtilects book, which allows you to play your own Android, Hologram or sentient starship) scattered around this forum.

Sorry to not be more helpful.