Sniper in Star Trek

[JALU3]

This brings into question . . . how would a Starfleet GF game be played? When all the technology is countered by other technology . . . when the stars and air are constantly contested . . . it's you, your sensors, your senses, your rifle, and your sidearm . . . like the discussion of the difference between modern day soliders and their roman predecesors, all that changes are the names and the tech . . .

Would Starfleet Tactical "Communication Suits" work well? Hoppers? APCs? Combat Tricorders . . . defense UAVs . . .

[LUGTrekGM]

Smells like Voyager to me.

It's removing the Human element. Even though that's real world, it makes the stories more about tech.

To me, Trek is about: "Goddamn You, You Klingon Bastard, You Killed My Son!" (TM).

Not repolarizing the deflector dish to counter the anti-polaron wavefront's event horizon. Bleh.

I'm not into tuning shield freqs, either.

I think tech is there, sure. But the stories should be human stories. I've seen push button warfare, and it's heartless, 50 nm over the horizon, bearing-only launch...carnage.

[Tobian]

Hehe, I think Trek is very much about enabling humans to do the impossible, otherwise they would just send warp 9 probes to do their research for them But the technology, and how it changes humanity is the Scifi part of the show, so yes military tactics would be radically changed in 400 years, things we would never have thought of because we are instrinsically Human!

I think Wolfe has made some excellent points, though with regards to the TR-116 - it exists from an era when energy dampening fields could disable phasers, as a tactical weapon it is still FAR inferior to the range of possibilities of Phasers! Still as any 'soldier' knows he has to think on his feet, and use the best tool at his disposal: his brain

[The Tatterdemalion King]

It's like our Thellie suits today you aren't finding us using most thermals, but the sniper in just a regular ghillie suit stands out like a beacon.

look at that suit Data wore in Insurrection, snipers today would kill for that suit.
That would easily be part of the snipers standard kit loadout in Startrek.
every time theres headway in detecting the sniper, the means to camoflauge catch up and the lovely circle continues.

The suit was used to observe a species they believed to be at an agricultural level of technology. The little scanny thing they had to watch it means that it was relatively easy for them to get around it, and the onboard power system for a portable holo-generator would probably show up really easy.

[Tobian]

Yep, I think it would be the case of "Why is that man running round in a holo suit over there" *Points, tricorder in his other hand* "Hey you there, what are you doing?"

Far more useful in practical terms are subspace transponders designed to mask your sensor signature. For a people who are used to be able to detect all living people in a 3000 mile radius, with their hand held scanner, it's a good way to tactically surprise them

I tend to treat with contempt those who use the 'but I saw this in Startrek so I want to be able to do it' argument. Sometimes, some of the technology is overly powerful, and gets in the way of story. I think my players would use transporters to go to the shops if they could! it reminds me of one of the players who was pushing the group into doing EVERYTHING from his science suite and the transporters, rather than going undercover and snooping around. They decided to bring back this Victorian era doctor back to their ship, and it failed. They then beamed in pattern buffers, and rolled REALLY Lucky.. unfortunately luck was not with them, when they realised it was a Borg Drone in disguise, who rapidly began recharging himself and locking them out of the ships systems

[JALU3]

Although technology can ulter how tactics are conducted . . . with the great one upmanship of technology and counter technology . . . it still boils down to the person's ability to implement the tactic so that your side has the advantage.

So . . . so what if you can fly, have shields, and have a weapon that can take down a modern tank . . . that doesn't mean that they can't shoot you down, shoot past your shields, and use a weapon just as powerful to make you into dust . . . just because you can . . . doesn't mean you do. Just because you have the tech . . . doesn't mean that you have the upper hand.

So one can run a Starfleet GF game . . . and not have it just push button.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The real question is, how would that be Star Trek?

Give us some example episodes, here...

[C5]

The episode that comes to mind when talking ground combat is DS9's ...Nor the battle to the strong, where Jake Sisko encounters a wounded ground soldier, who mentions hoppers IIRC. Possibly also The siege of AR-558, for ideas on what ground combat could look like.

As for the question of knowing what is Star Trek, I think this one has been open since 40 years now and can still be debated for some time...

I tend to agree with Tobian too that what's seen on the show doesn't have to be allowed in a game, or that it can be tweaked as the GM sees fit.

For instance, one could rule that the TR-116 can only work inside a closed interior (like a ship, a building, or a space station), rendering it useless in outdoor ground combat (and even hard to use for an assassination attempt, since the sniper would have to be in the same building as his target). Or just wipe it from one's game timeline (which I did, and warned my players about - I just can't begin to imagine what they would do just with its "see-through-walls" visor).

And, on the other hand, if you want your players to fight against tanks in a muddy valley with hand phasers and hoppers, then go on with it (anyway this can happen on remote worlds).

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The episode that comes to mind when talking ground combat is DS9's ...Nor the battle to the strong, where Jake Sisko encounters a wounded ground soldier, who mentions hoppers IIRC. Possibly also The siege of AR-558, for ideas on what ground combat could look like.

Actually, I meant episode ideas for a game.

[Tobian]

Yeah basically what you're saying is that while yes its all good, how would such a character integrate into a crew, on board a starship, for a troupe play session.

To take an aside for a moment, this reminds me of the dreaded 'marine' problem in Starfleet and the many arguments I used to have about it; but without dragging up all that crap, one of the reasons I used to dislike their concept in my old PBEM was that 'combat specialists' really had not much to do on most missions, which didn't involve combat! Most people coming to play the game wanted to roleplay the lives of a people on a starship, not have every episode devolve into a twink-fest uber combat! In a TOS game, set on the neutral zone (or even TNG and DS9 in some areas) where there was a constant battle going on, and lots of tense border disputes and battles going on all the time, they will be a pig in muck... In the episode where the characters go to have diplomatic talks with a race of intelligent plants descended from Chrysanthemums, they are going to be twiddling their thumbs, and basically bored players result in games getting sidelined heavily or ruined (I.e. the bored combat monster who inadvertently begins a war with said peaceful plant beings ).

So basically yes, on the 'tail not wagging the dog' principle, such characters aren't really well suited to a troupe play, where you want a mix of well rounded officers, who can, if the story calls for it, kick ass, even if you can justify them within the universe.

[tonyg]

I would say Sniper type characters don't fint into regular Starfllet campaign, but into Starfleet Intelligence campaigns. My view is that it is basically the James Bond of the Star Trek era. THe character might have some sort of Starfleet baqackground, and rank, but isn't the sort of character that will normally be serving aboard a Starship.

I don't really see the Federation using snipers, even during a war, in the same sort of numbers that modern armies do. In many ways assassination can be counterproductive, and Trek has lots of alternatives to it. More like Section 31's style.

Fiting such a character into a "normal" campaignb would probably involve some sort of counter-intelligence mission aboard a Starship, base, or outpost. Probably something run as a long term story arc with the "sniper" working under a cover until he can discover who the target is and eliminate them.

One big problem with snipers in CODA is that the weapon ranges in CODA are a bit low. Most old fashioned bolt action rifles has much greater range than phaser rifles (something that probably isn't true, either).

[Jem'hadar]

I was re-reading the Player's book the other day & it looks like I misspoke regarding whether Starfleet had special forces.

According to STRPG Players book, Starfleet has a Rapid Response Team & Rangers as their special forces, at least in the Decipher Star Trek universe. The passage also mentions Romulan & Breen special forces units.

Special Forces & Assassin are elite professions available to PCs. However, I believe Starfleet still does not condone assassinations so I would imagine the Assassin is ineligible as an elite profession to Starfleet PCs.