Klingons & Romulans

[mactavish]

According to the Romulan Boxed Set, the Klingon-Romulan Alliance in the 23rd century gave cloaking technology to the Klingons and matter/antimatter warp technology to the Romulans.

On Enterprise, however, we did see Romulan vessels with warp technology.

I know this is nitpicky, but I'm trying to come up with an explanation for warp-capable Romulans in my ICON Series.

The way I see it, there are a number of options:

1. 22nd-century Romulans did not have any warp technology; this is contradicted by both existing RPG material and onscreen evidence
2. 22nd-century Romulans had magnetic bottle warp technology (one-way only); this is contradicted by onscreen evidence
3. 22nd-century Romulans had standard warp technology, but it was inferior to most other starfaring powers; this is contradicted by existing RPG material

Regarding the Klingons and cloaking technology, it seems that the ICON material may be correct; we didn't see cloaked Klingon ships on Enterprise. While that doesn't mean that they didn't have such technologies, the evidence seems to support this theory.

The 22nd-century Romulans had some pretty fancy technologies. They had visual and sensor-cloaking technologies, holographic projection, and psychic-operated starship controls. That they might not also possess warp technology seems odd, but I guess that it's a possibility.

The 22nd-century Klingons also had some impressive technologies. They had tractor beams, extremely powerful tactical systems, and sensor technologies clearly superior to Starfleet.

How did Starfleet so quickly surpass their advancments? Was it the alliance with Vulcan, Andoria and Tellar that led to Starfleet's superiority? Was it the fact that humanity developed technology more quickly than its adversaries?

What I've been thinking is this:

Romulan technological development is slow, much slower than human scientific advancement. Their science has developed over centuries, based on ancient Vulcan science taken into their future along the lines of the Way of D'era, focusing toward expansion and conquest rather than exploration. With lifespans upwards of 200 years, perhaps the Romulans felt little need to hurry in their development of new technologies. Perhaps they were more interested in developing their tried and true technologies instead of coming up with new stuff.

The Klingons, on the other hand, are more like cavemen who happened to stumble on fire rather than creating it on their own. The hur'Q Invasion may have provided Qo'nos with warp technology, energy weapons, power production, and so on. This technological surge led to the Klingons' push into space as a major power, but didn't make immediately them an advanced civilization. Klingon scientists and technicians reverse-engineered their former oppressors' technologies once they were driven away by the Klingon uprising, and while they learned how to operate, repair, and even reproduce it, they didn't have a true understanding of the underlying principles of it until decades or centuries later. This led to Klingons as the equivalent of space Vikings, utilizing stolen technologies that they didn't truly comprehend, spreading their empire through war and conquest.

I've talked and written a lot about 22nd-century Klingons, even calling them "space Vikings" before. They are a really great adversary species for pre- and even early post-Federation Earth, they are superior to humanity in many ways (i.e. technology, physiology, aggression, etc.), and they really have no strong centralized government to file a complaint with when Klingon raiders from the House of Duras seize your ship and kill your crew.

I've not really addressed the Romulans of the 22nd century much before now, mainly because there wasn't a lot of canon information to be had, and also because I took a break from Star Trek roleplaying for a while. Well, now that Enterprise has ended and I'm back in the game (so to speak), I'd like to find all my notes from over the years, write some new material, and produce an extensive Enterprise-era "bible" for my Series.

I love the Romulans as villains, too, but for a whole different set of reasons than the Klingons. Where the Klingons are the Mongols of the 22nd-century Star Trek universe, the Romulans are more like the Chinese. They are calculating, they are secretive, and they are patient. They can be driven to acts of extreme brutality, are masters of war, and are as likely to shoot first as not, but they are not savages or bloodthirsty warriors like the Klingons. They have a centralized government, a centuries-old culture and civilization, and a sizeable empire to boot. They clearly possess energy weapons and photon torpedoes (or perhaps plasma torpedoes), they have cloaking devices (which I believe we've only seen from the Suliban and the Xyillians to this point), and they are militant and extremely organized. They are clearly the biggest threat to early Starfleet.

The Earth-Romulan War began in 2156 and ended in 2160 with the Battle of Cheron. Romulan forces were smashed when Starfleet warped in with a massive battlegroup and wiped out the enemy ships. The armistice was negotiated over subspace radio, so neither humans nor their Vulcan, Andorian or Tellarite allies ever saw the Romulans. The Klingons presumably sat out the Earth-Romulan War, but perhaps not. Maybe the forces of some of the Great Houses served as mercenaries for one side or the other (more likely Romulus than Earth), or maybe the Klingons provided covert support for the Romulan war effort, especially since mankind was indirectly responsible for the flat-headed Klingons that were seen throughout the TOS era. Further, human-Klingon relations had a spotty track record to begin with, and the High Council may well have wanted to see the upstart Terrans laid low.

While all starships of the era are comparable to one another, each race clearly had it's strengths and weaknesses. Human ships were more versatile than their contemporaries (equipped for scientific exploration as well as rescue operations and self-defense) and possessed newly-developed transporter technologies and pretty good propulsion systems. Romulan ships were fitted with cloaking technologies and had decent weapon systems. (Did the Romulans have deflector shields in "Minefield"?) The Klingon ships are war machines, fitted with weapons more powerful than most other spacefaring powers, and also possessing tractor beams and (I believe) deflector shields.

The Vulcans, I think, had the best overall starships of the era. They were fast, powerful, sported deflector shields and tractor beams, and were generally a match for nearly everyone else. A single Vulcan ship - designed primarily for exploration, mind you - could mop the floor with any two enemy ships. The Andorians, like the Klingons, had warships fitted with decent weapons and (I believe) shields. I'm not sure about the Tellarites. While the porcine aliens are known as exceptional engineers, I'm not sure that we saw enough of their ships to make much of a guess as to their capabilities.

I know that there were others, but I need to take a break for a bit. I'll come back and write more later.

mactavish out.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Notes:

-The Sh'Raan, which faced down three Mazarite cruisers more or less by itself (the Ent was pretty beat up), was explicitly described as a 'combat cruiser.' I think it'd be Size 7 by ICON standards, which is comparatively pretty huge. However, the Vulcans are also described as 'sticking close to home.'

-The Vulcans were still, essentially, a client state of the Romulans until the events of 'Kir'Shara.' It's likely that Romulan agents were placed on Andoria (they kidnapped an Aenar without too much trouble) and probably Tellar, Mazar, Coridan, the Syndicate, Arkonia, definately the Klingons, Rigel, etc etc. Their military power might not be as significant as their hidden leverage over the region.

-Manny Coto said that the use of cloaking devices in "Minefield" was a mistake and wouldn't be repeated, had the series continued.

[Tobian]

Well Hmm tricky subjects prone to fanwars haha

I suspect that several of the above could be true... What I should say is that anything that the rulebooks say is kind of moot as compared to your own game. The rule of Canon is also that it always overrules whatever else is out there, which includes any game books !

My take on the Romulans is that they have to have had some sort of 'warp' drive, be that magnetic bottles, low warp or whatever.. space travel is just not practical without some sort of FTL. It Could be that due to their location or whatever the Romulans had no access to Dilithium crystals, which allow cultures to stabilise the M/AM reaction. So they kept with fusion reaction technologies, both pushing them to the heights that were the best they could go to (low warp 1-3 at most) and creating the magnetic bottle, which allowed them to go at high warp BUT was basically a one time only boost. So for example they could leave their spaceport to their location using a magnetic bottle - but then limp back home using fusion based technology, albeit at low warp, which could explain 'simple impulse power' of TOS. Later they advanced the magnetic bottle into a full artificial quantum singularity, which is in many ways superior to regular M/AM technology, at the price of being able to turn it off!

With regards to cloaking technology, well there is a cloak and then there's a cloak... I mean in Japan today they have basic optical cloaks, which are a bit rubbish, but doable. Beyond that cloaking devices are a question of an arms race. So it may well be that Romulan cloaks were quite capable of fooling Enterprises sensors, they may not have fooled others (after all T'pol managed to detect them, and constantly mocked humans sensor technology)

With regards to how the Federation managed to outstrip the Klingons and Romulans, well that's fairly obvious: They were both on their own. The Federation, through their unity and huge diversity of technological sharing, were able to rapidly develop new technology, by combining their respective knowledges together, hence through the assistance of Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians, all of whom had advanced technologies, meant the Humans suddenly REALLY overwhelmed the Romulans at the battle of Cheron, and what I think set the Federation on their rapid ascent. As the Federation ascended, they rolled in yet more technologies, as they shared with their new parners. In some ways I suspect the reasons the Klingons and Romulans managed to catch up was both through the axiom of necessity is the mother of invention, and just a little industrial espionage! And of course, when you factor in advanced sensor technology, simply being able to observe your enemies weapon / defence systems tells you how you should improve your own!

With regards to the Mazzerite, I don't think I saw the episode, but quite often there can be quite a difference in technologies.. Enterprise, in a straight fight was no match for a Vulcan cruiser, which had nothing to do with their respective sizes.. It was how different their technologies were. The Vulcan's had much better shields and energy weapons. Since the Andorians had to have at least partly comparable ships to have even been IN a war with the Vulcans, and not rapidly defeated, they must have had fairly powerful technology!

[Phoenix]

On the Romulans and Warp drive: To be honest we have never heard on screen that the Romulans lacked Warp propulsion. We have heard:

Kirk: "Well, gentlemen, the question still remains: can we engage them with a reasonable possibility of victory?"
Scott: "No question. Their power is simple impulse."
Kirk: "Meaning we can outrun them."

"Their power is simple impulse" being the key phrase. Not their drive, not their propulsion, but their power. As you stated in your question the exchange was for matter/anti-matter warp technology (and that was, again replaced by Singularity warp technology in the 24th century)

On Klingons having Cloaking tech in the 22nd century: (From what little of Ent I have seen) Only a member from the House of Duras seemed to have a cloaking device. A House established back in TNG to have had long held ties to the Romulans.

So fast forward to the 23rd century: The Klingon Empire and the Romulan Empire exchange advanced warp technology for empire wide cloaking technology.

Klingon Technology advancement, the quick answer: Klingons are warriors not inventor, their technology comes from subjected species or reverse engineering captured technology. This also helps to explain the continued fielding of D7's, the Klingons didn't find a better design until the 24th century. That was most likely due to Federation engineering principles.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

On Klingons having Cloaking tech in the 22nd century: (From what little of Ent I have seen) Only a member from the House of Duras seemed to have a cloaking device. A House established back in TNG to have had long held ties to the Romulans.

Whoa hey. What episode was that? I never heard mention of it.

Klingon Technology advancement, the quick answer: Klingons are warriors not inventor, their technology comes from subjected species or reverse engineering captured technology. This also helps to explain the continued fielding of D7's, the Klingons didn't find a better design until the 24th century. That was most likely due to Federation engineering principles.

'Bounty' [ENT] mentions a Tellarite freighter being cannibalized by the Klingons.

A secondary, complimentary explanation for Klingon technology is that they are definitively not a centralized authority. The democratic Federation and the ogliarchic-fascistic romulans are both set up to encourage the central collection of scientific innovation; Klingons are organized into Houses which we know compete against each other economically as well as politically. Poor houses may not have the resources to construct or buy new ones–perhaps the patent for constructing Vor'Cha class ships are held by the House of Kang and are leased as favours.

Technological advantages would be used to gain power inside the Empire first, then outside.

[Phoenix]

Whoa hey. What episode was that? I never heard mention of it.

Caught bits and pieces of an Ep. where a House Duras ship(s) (looked smallish) had entered into the Sol system to ambush the returning NX-01, quick battle with two more Earth based ships then poof the Klingon ship vanish again. With what little I saw of that episode I just thought cloaking tech was involved. If I'm wrong that's OK too.

'Bounty' [ENT] mentions a Tellarite freighter being cannibalized by the Klingons.

A secondary, complimentary explanation for Klingon technology is that they are definitively not a centralized authority. The democratic Federation and the ogliarchic-fascistic romulans are both set up to encourage the central collection of scientific innovation; Klingons are organized into Houses which we know compete against each other economically as well as politically. Poor houses may not have the resources to construct or buy new ones–perhaps the patent for constructing Vor'Cha class ships are held by the House of Kang and are leased as favours.

Technological advantages would be used to gain power inside the Empire first, then outside.

Never watched 'Bounty', sorry. As for the rest, you'll get no argument from me on that.

[mactavish]

I don't remember the 22nd-century Klingons having cloaking technology, either. I'm not saying that they didn't, just that I don't remember it.

The point made regarding the relative speed of Federation technological development (or the relative slowness of the Klingons and Romulans, if you prefer) being related to the diversity of the UFP is a good one. Of course, mankind made some pretty impressive technological leaps between 2063 and 2150, and all (it would seem) without any outside assistance.

Zefram Cochrane independently developed warp drive technology on a post-holocaust Earth. Over the next 80-90 years, humans progressed from warp 1 to warp 5, and that was with the Vulcans not helping (and possibly actively hindering) them with their research. Vulcans, on the other hand, developed warp drive technology centuries earlier, but only managed to reach warp 6.5 by the mid-22nd century.

Humans - warp 1 to warp 5 in 87 years
Vulcan - warp 1 to warp 6.5 in, say, 650 years

Sure, Vulcans are maybe 50-100 years more advanced than humanity when they make First Contact in 2063, but mankind makes some big strides over the next nine decades, largely thanks to the Vulcans. I always assumed that the Vulcans brought along technologies and techniques to clean up what radioactive contamination remained from World War III as well as advances in medicine, power production, gravity manipulation, sensors, and so on. They would, of course, keep the best and most cutting edge stuff to themselves, but technologies that they had possessed for centuries might well be used as bargaining chips (though I can't be sure what humans had to offer their Vulcan acquaintances).

Moreover, the Vulcans introduced humanity to the larger interstellar community, bringing them together with the Denobulans (and presumably others) before Enterprise left the nest and made contact with the Andorians, Tellarites, and the dozens of others that would become allies, enemies, and interesting neutral parties. I've also operated under the presumption that the Vulcans were among the most advanced contemporary races (technologically), and - as both humans and Andorians seemed to confirm - lorded their technological superiority over everyone else. Sure, some races had faster ships or better weapons, but the Vulcans were more advanced in all areas, and those advancements seemed to always make the difference.

The Vulcans that eventually became Romulans left Vulcan roughly 2,000 years ago. They did so in STL ships. Last Unicorn Games indicated that they got to Romulus via a wormhole that subsequently collapsed. Over the next 20 centuries, the Romulans formed their empire and expanded it to neighboring systems, again [presumably] without warp drive. I'd like to think that the Romulans developed warp technologies around the same time as humanity (~2050, give or take a decade), but - like the Vulcans - their progress was slower than that made by humans. Of course, as was mentioned in a previous post, they didn't have the benefit of another, more technologically-advanced race to help them out by introducing other devices or techniques, but they didn't have the Vulcans to stymie their efforts, either.

I'm going to say that the Romulan Star Empire (in my rendition of the Star Trek universe) developed their first warp drive - powered by a fission reactor - in 2050, and used the prototype to explore nearby star systems. Building a fleet of ships, they traveled at low warp (say 2.5, maximum) to several of the systems they explored earlier and built colonies on habitable (but unoccupied) worlds, while their military forces conquered those planets occupied by less advanced races. In this manner, the Romulans built their empire on the backs of their client races, expanding their reach over the next century. When they encountered other technologically-advanced races (warp-capable ones, typically), they either overpowered them and stole their technologies, or bartered for their advances if they appeared too tough to force into capitulation.

By the time they encountered NX-01 Enterprise, the Romulans had [again, in MY version of the Star Trek universe] either developed or acquired stealth technologies (cloaking devices), and utilized them to explore and interfere without ever being discovered. In this manner, they not only placed [sometimes surgically-altered] undercover operatives on Vulcan, Andoria, and elsewhere, but in fact managed to learn of mankind and Earth, and even put a few Romulan agents (posing as Vulcans) on the ground to check things out. Combined with data taken from the Vulcan High Command and the Science Directorate, the Romulans knew a great deal about humans prior to their first face-to-face encounter (so to speak).

Over the next couple of centuries, the Romulans managed to improve their drive technologies. I am going to say that MY Romulans did so in many ways, but primarily through exchanging technologies with the Klingons in the 2220's. Again, this exchange gave the Klingon Empire cloaking technology while it gave the Romulan Star Empire faster warp drives and matter/antimatter power generation technology. At some point, the Romulans switched from... whatever they were using... to artificial singularity engines for their energy production. Regardless, their warp drives - while based on the same principles used by humans, Klingons, Vulcans, and so forth - are powered in a different manner.

Assuming for the moment that Romulan scientists developed technologies to fool sensors [cloaking devices], I'd assume that - again, as mentioned in an earlier post - they were pretty limited. While they may have fooled most races encountered, they likely would be uncovered eventually (as they were in Enterprise) by the Vulcans. Or perhaps T'Pol was just lucky, as the Romulan spies on Vulcan learned enough about how Vulcan sensors operated to program their cloaking devices to compensate. Hmm...

Now, assuming that the Romulans did NOT develop their own cloaking technologies, from whom were they acquired? Possible candidates include the Suliban Cabal ("Broken Bow") and the Xyrilians ("Unexpected"), though I'm sure there are other possibilities, too. Perhaps they discovered a Xyrilian ship hiding in their plasma wake, disabled them, and enslaved the crew and reverse engineered their vessel. In this way, they may have gotten quite a technological boost, from a new power plant design to photon resequencing holography to cloaking devices and psionic technologies. This could also explain their chameleon ship raider ("United"), which made extensive use of holographic disguise and was remotely operated by an Andorian sub-race [Aenar] pilot via psionic interface.

Though their history as a spacefaring race extends back much further than mankind, the Romulans' technological progress seems to follow a path more like their Vulcan progenitors (read as "slow"), though it was also likely supplemented with acquired technologies (both stolen and exchanged).

Next up, the Klingons and their technological progress, such as it is in MY Star Trek universe.

mactavish out.

[Owen E Oulton]

I don't remember the 22nd-century Klingons having cloaking technology, either.

They had it by the time of STIII, and played a prominent role in STIV, V and VI. I've never bought into the idea that TOS Romulans did not have warp drive - that's based on a really extreme interpretation of ambiguous comments by Spock in Balance of Terror - but the Klingon/Romulan technology exchange is quite explicitly established in The Enterprise Incident, where the Romulans are using Klingon ships (established both visually and in dialogue).

[Tobian]

Actually I rather like the use of the Xyrilians, as a plot device for the Romulans to be filching technology from! Early cloaking devices would likely be holographic in nature, and the Xyrilians is more of a stealth technology: The Suliban technology was far more advanced, and dangerous to give them so early on!

what you've written so far sounds pretty reasonable MacT. It does make me wonder if part of the reason Romulans and Vulcans were so slow in developing technology was purelly because of their long lifespans and mating cycles.. they are basically less numerous, plus, with the dividing of their culture, as it was 2000 years ago, it's not hard to imagine that Romulus has a pretty small population compared to many industrialised worlds, as with Vulcan.

I also sort of imagine what slowed down the Vulcans, in their technological prowess, was because while they were curious, they suffered a little from the V-ger problem, they were limited by the rigidity of their logic. One of the traits I did like about the sparring between T'pol and Archer was his basic ability to have a broad imagination: Not to be limited by what logic dictated was not logical. Humans pushed harder at the boundaries of conventional reality, because they refused to be limited by them. Vulcans through logical deduction had arrived at many advanced technologies, but that can be slow. Sometimes humans just fiddled with the settings and tried other things, just to be sure if they couldn't find a better way of doing things by dumb luck! Sometimes it is possible to achieve the same thing, by doing it in different ways: hence there are quite a few different types of warp drive: The warp 5 project was using a linear drive system, whereas the Vulcans used a ring system. The Linear drive was, because of it's crudeness a much slower system, plus the Vulcans looked at it, and saw it was inferior to their technology and it was not the logical end result, as their system was.. However of course, as we know later on, they refined it and ultimatelly it proved to be the best system (why exactly we don't know, but starfleet doesn't use the ring design, which was in the enterprise era the fastest known design!). this is an example of the kind of fuzzy logic the Vulcans seem to have a problem getting.. the 'best' way isn't always the 'best'

[Doug Burke]

I don't remember the 22nd-century Klingons having cloaking technology, either.

They had it by the time of STIII, and played a prominent role in STIV, V and VI. I've never bought into the idea that TOS Romulans did not have warp drive - that's based on a really extreme interpretation of ambiguous comments by Spock in Balance of Terror - but the Klingon/Romulan technology exchange is quite explicitly established in The Enterprise Incident, where the Romulans are using Klingon ships (established both visually and in dialogue).

All of which happened in the 23rd Century...

[mactavish]

The Klingons of MY Star Trek universe were a race of bloodthirsty warriors who organized themselves first into tribes and eventually into Houses. They functioned at a pre-industrial level (roughly equivalent to 15th-century Europe) for millennia. They honed their skills as warriors, but managed to take enough time to build thorps and hamlets, eventually building the great cities of Qo'nos.

Roughly eight centuries before they first encountered mankind, the Klingon homeworld, Qo'nos, was conquered and its inhabitants subjugated by an alien race called the Hur'q by the Klingons themselves. (Hur'q is apparently the Klingon-native word for "outsider.") For a period of several years, the Klingons fought against their oppressors, staging raid upon raid against their bases. Finally, in a coordinated attack by tens of thousands of Klingons armed with bat'leths and other melee weapons, the Hur'q were driven out, fleeing Qo'nos never to return.

The Hur'q presence, however, was not so easily forgotten. The implements of their conquest - primarily warp-capable spacecraft, energy weapons, and computers - were scattered across the face of the planet. Scars from their weapons may still be seen to this day, and many memorials to the lost ancient warriors stand on all continents.

While known for their fierceness and dedication to battle, there are among them those Klingons whose primary drive is not military conquest, but scientific conquest. The wise men of many Klingon Houses studied the Hur'q weapons and other technologies, and eventually (after decades of research) some managed to gain a rudimentary understanding of their functions. Weapons, of course, were quickly understood and the elite warriors of many Houses carried Hur'q energy pistols and rifles into battle, though most still relied primarily on their bat'leths to lay their enemies low.

The true breakthroughs came, however, when one of the Klingon scientists uncovered software in the Hur'q computers that translated the systems into his particular dialect of the Klingon language. This single event revealed millennia of scientific and technological study to the fortunate Klingon. Though his intellect was great, the sum total of Hur'q technological knowledge was simply too vast. However, as he studied the basic concepts of science - biology, chemistry, physics - his understanding grew. He became a teacher and spread these ideas throughout the lands controlled by his master's House. In time, the more advanced concepts were understood by students who stood on the shoulders of their wizened teachers, and eventually - after nearly six centuries - the science of the Hur'q was theirs.

Thus, some time early in Earth's 20th century - under a shakily united planetary empire - the Klingons produced the first of their own warp-capable vessels. Of course, they'd been traveling between the stars for nearly 200 years by then using the scores of Hur'q ships left behind so long ago. Nevertheless, the engineers of the Great Houses produced the first raptor-like ships which they used to visit world upon world, conquering many less advanced races, using their technological edge to subjugate dozens of systems in the region around Qo'nos. They colonized scores of worlds and reinforced garrisons on worlds they had colonized or conquered centuries earlier.

Thus, using technology and knowledge not of their own making, the Klingon Empire became a power to be reckoned with. Their ascent to interstellar travel came faster than for mankind, but humanity did the work on their own. The Klingons made their way to space through darker means, yet the end result was the same. Perhaps part of the Klingons' hostility comes from the fact that they rose to power not through their own wisdom, but as the result of their bloodthirst. Indeed, perhaps it is because their savagery earned them so much that they remain both advanced and primitive, civilized yet savage, into the late 24th century.

While the Klingons did not create their science or technology, that is not to say that they do not understand it. They sowed the seeds of their technical expertise initally by throwing off their shackles, but they spent centuries cultivating that knowledge until it bloomed. Like Vikings who found jet skis and assault rifles, the Klingons worked tirelessly for centuries to create a society both ancient and advanced, treacherous yet honorable.

Contact between the Klingons and Vulcans occured around the terrestrial year 1920. Though the Vulcans had studied numerous Klingon colony worlds from afar, first contact was initiated when a Klingon raider savagely attacked a Vulcan explorer. When a Vulcan battlecrusier arrived on the scene, the Klingons suddenly became far more open to friendly communications. Though the relationship was limited, Vulcan envoys traveled to Qo'nos, and even established a consulate there, leading to decades of lopsided trade (in favor of the Vulcans) and knolwedge acquisition (again, largely in the Vulcans' favor).

While somewhat more advanced than 22nd-century Earth in both propulsion (warp 5.6) and tactical systems (beam weapons, energy-based missiles, deflector shields, tractor beams), they were retarded in such fields as medicine and various other sciences, both life and physical. Despite their extensive library of scientific knowledge, the Klingons were more interested in practical application than theoretical science. Further, since the biology studies were primarily concerning the Hur'q, little of that information was actually applicable to the Klingons. Indeed, even in the 22nd century, Qo'nos is still plagued by disease, seriously damaged limbs are amputated, and zoology focuses mainly on animals that are threats or serve as good hunting material.

Whew! That took a lot out of me.

I'm going to take a break for a while, but I really wanted to get some thoughts out there about MY Klingons.

mactavish out.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Why wouldn't they simply use the Hur'Q ships that they had? Fly around, find some Orions, take their ships (and possibly nomenclature) and keep going?

[Captain Otto]

Why wouldn't they simply use the Hur'Q ships that they had? Fly around, find some Orions, take their ships (and possibly nomenclature) and keep going?

Im not so sure about that: everyone can drive a car but many are dumbfounded if it starts to make problems. If the Klingons fly around in Old Hur'Q or Orion ships without fully understanding the Principles behind how it functions its a sure shot recipe for disaster. Ships need constant maintenance so i think only after a few years those Hur'Q and Orion Ships will break down. This probably hampers the Klingons and their advance at building an empire.

They finally understood enough about the principles of warp ships to build their own and then resume their further ascent to an star spanning empire.

[IceGiant]

Gawd I want to play a klingon in macs game so bad

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Im not so sure about that: everyone can drive a car but many are dumbfounded if it starts to make problems. If the Klingons fly around in Old Hur'Q or Orion ships without fully understanding the Principles behind how it functions its a sure shot recipe for disaster. Ships need constant maintenance so i think only after a few years those Hur'Q and Orion Ships will break down.

That's why they steal another one. Or enslave alien engineers. It fits the modus opperandi, is all I'm saying.