Pre-Federation Coalition of Planets

[The Tatterdemalion King]

No actually there are 2 basic problems with the mix and match data available...

The Orions are not really pinned down in Canon, except for one basic fact... the Star (Rigel) is, as you say 700+ light years away BUT there is another system MUCH closer, somewhere between Earth space and Qo'nos - there are 2 'Rigels' - Ours (in the Astronomy sense) and a planet known as Rigel, as translated from Klingon, much closer to Earth.

Or the warp speed charts and Broken Bow travel times are completely fucked anyway...

[Tobian]

Well yes you are right there, however in that episode they specifically mention that this 'Rigel' is a Klingon name for a system, which they state is on the way to Qo'nos... The warp speeds are completely broken, however this does imply at least that there is another 'Rigel', which is not the same as the star humans call 'Rigel', which also helps to fix episodes of TOS, where they would also have a big problem getting all the way out there too, even with their much faster warp drive haha

[BouncyCaitian]

While the MACO's definitely have thier military roots, I tend to see them as the Trek version of ground forces and High Threat Response Teams that are used in hostage situations or when you abosolutely positively need to neutralise that one threat and you KNOW negotations are not going to work and Security, while competent, just doesn't have the Mad SKILLS you need to pull off the save.

Sort like regular Police Vs Counter Terror or SWAT Teams.

[mactavish]

I can see the MACOs being folded into Starfleet Security as members of a Rapid Response Team, but find it unlikely that they would be maintained as a separate organization after the founding of the Federation. During the Coalition of Planets era, however, I can see the maintenance of the MACOs, perhaps even having them join forces with members of similar organizations from Andoria, Tellar and Vulcan (and perhaps Denobula and Coridan as well) in much the same way as members of those races would work with Earth's Starfleet during that same era.

I've never been one to make use of Starfleet Marines or any other such organization during the TOS or TNG/DS9/Voy eras, but Enterprise clearly indicates a military presence, though not a really a Starfleet one. I think that the MACOs in particular and the United Earth military in general probably remain as viable entities through the foundation of the Federation, quite possibly until the end of the 22nd century, eventually giving up all planetary forces and their respective military duties to Starfleet (especially since that organization is headquartered on Earth).

Is there a Federation military? I'm guessing not. Why? There really is no reason to maintain one, particularly in the 23rd and 24th centuries. Until the Dominion War, we see little evidence of ground wars between the Federation and any other group. Any such engagements would likely be small and easily handled by Starfleet Security or one of its branches (like the RRT, for instance). Even during the war with the Dominion, Starfleet is the organization we see fighting the Jem'Hadar and their allies on the ground, not any sort of marine corps or other standing army.

In any case, my upcoming Enterprise-era Series will indeed have MACOs as part of the story, though not necessarily as a major element (depending on what the players decide). Since I'm planning on putting the PCs aboard a retrofitted Neptune-class scout (c.2154), they will likely encounter the Xindi, the Suliban Cabal, and a host of other unfriendlies; every Starfleet vessel in this era will host a small contingent of MACOs. The Series will be a build-up to the Earth-Romulan War (in which the PCs are likely to take place), and will be based around the Earth Starfleet starbase ES-1 (which I've detailed in previous threads).

That's all for now. I'll post some more later.

mactavish out.

[mactavish]

I'm a little disappointed that my Enterprise-era Series hasn't taken flight yet, but I think that - in a few weeks - the maiden voyage of the Earth Starfeet vessel Poseidon will take place.

Poseidon is a Neptune-class ship (the triangular-shaped hull with nacelles toward the aft) refitted after the initial Xindi attack on Earth. It has polarized hull plating, phase cannons, and a transporter. Poseidon's warp drive system has been upgraded to reach warp 4.2, and upgrades supplied by the Andorians, Xyrillians, and Vissians have made many systems more efficient and/or smaller. Poseidon may even be retrofitted with Andorian-based deflector shield emitters before too long.

The captain, Michael Bronwyn, is an NPC. The roles of the other senior officers will be taken on by the players, though the specifics are not yet set. We'll probably have a human crew with an alien or two (likely a Vulcan or Andorian and one other).

I suspect that the players will take the roles of the first officer, the chief engineer, the tactical officer and the science officer, but there is at least on interested in leading the MACOs attached to Poseidon. I was also thinking of including at least one or two recurring NPCs who, while not necessarily posted to Poseidon, would show up every few Episodes (such as a Vulcan liaison to the High Command, an Andorian Imperial Guard contact, or a Tellarite ambassador, for instance).

In a long ago post, I suggested that I might include the Minosians, from the TNG episode "Arsenal of Freedom." I think that trading with the Minosians could prove an excellent basis for upgraded weapons or other tactical systems aboard Poseidon. (Indeed, maybe the shields come from the Arsenal rather than the Andorians.)

Just a couple ideas I've been tossing around.

mactavish out.

[Owen E Oulton]

I think it's clear that it was intended that deflector shields would be developed from the force fields that Trip and Malcolm worked on during the series.

To get back to the original question in the thread, I don't think there WAS any pre-Federation Coalition. The Coalition referred to in the episode IS the UFP - from initial talks late in Season 4 to the official founding of a multi-system alliance a mere 6 years later, given the profound differences of opinion between various members (like, say, the Vulcans and Andorians), the cultural upheaval on Vulcan, and the travel times involved - would take a fair amount of time to set up.

[mactavish]

Y'know Owen, I always thought so, too, but the founding members just don't jive. I kind of thought of this Coalition in much the same light as the nascent League of Nations that came to be before the UN.

Sure, I could just say that it's the UFP, but it offers far more possibilities to suggest that this group is the alliance that evolves into the Federation after the Earth-Romulan War.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

mactavish out.

[Imagus]

Butting in late...

There's some nice ideas here, but I wouldn't get too carried away with the idea of the Romulan War being some kind of multi-species "World War"-style event. It probably consisted of maybe half-a-dozen multi-ship battles (maybe 12 or so on each side) and a number of single-ship engagements. The lack of fast warp drive on either side led to very high casualty rates in each battle as neither side could simply escape. There wouldn't be much in the way of numbers due to the distances involved and the fact that neither side had replicators or even the fabricators hinted at in TOS. All the vessels are hand-assembled (it took about two years to put the Columbus together, remember!).

I like the Coalition idea - especially the analogy with the League of Nations. The history may even be similar - the Coalition is formed to strengthen trade and science ties, but fails to give more than superificial help to Earth during the war. Maybe Vulcan keeps out of it due to its new pacifist principles (in my version, the Vulcans never really lighten up from the ENT versions - I liked that!) and Tellar and Andoria both manoeuvre for better political positions after the war. All sides see how close they came to defeat during the war and reform the Coalition as the UFP over the next few years.

A little off-topic, but this is my version of the formation process - the Federation as we know it in Kirk's time (let alone Picard's) took several decades to form (a la the European Union).

• It probably began as an agreement to share technology and lower trade barriers, along with a loose military alliance.
• After a few years, Earth gives up Starfleet (per the treaty?) to form the basis of the Fed fleet - but Andoria and Vulcan, each wary of the other, refuse to give up their warfleets. (Vulcan believes the new Starfleet is a military organisation and refuses to allow its high-technology science vessels to join, Andoria is suspicious of the independence of these heavily-armed Vulcan "science" vessels). In Kirk's time, these are still independent fleets, but have joined Starfleet by the mid-24th century.
• Trade and science ties get stronger, and a number of inter-species colonies appear.
• Starfleet gains more funding due to more aggression from Klingons and Orion piracy. It begins a decisive campaign against Orion slavers and pirates.
• Around Kirk's time, the Federation finally forms a permanent Council as a first step towards political union. During the movie era, the President gains more power.

Oh, and on another element, the subspace channels mentioned in passing in the Star Charts book are the best explanation I've found for the odd distances and travel times.

[mactavish]

So I've been thinking more about this coalition. Lots of comments regarding it's formation as a prelude (or perhaps as the first step toward) the United Federation of Planets have affected my plans somewhat, but not too much.

I believe that these are two separate organizations. The coalition clearly includes Denobulans and Coridanites, while Daniels tells Archer that the Federation is created in 2161 and includes humans, Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites. The other two races are not only not mentioned, but are clearly excluded from the formation of the UFP.

In any case, I was wondering what the primary difference between the two organizations are. The federation is just that: a federation. That is to say that the central government is powerful and the member worlds more or less subverted by Federation law. The coalition, on the other hand, is more like an alliance, where the member worlds are sovereign and the organization exists solely for trade (commerce and ideas/technologies) and defense.

I really think that the war with Romulus is the key to the Federation's formation. As the previous poster suggested, it wasn't exactly a World War II scenario with the Romulans as the Axis or anything, but it was certainly enough to clarify the need for an organization dedicated to democratic ideals in the face of empires like the Romulans and the Klingons (among others).

Oh, and I also still perceive the Xindi-Reptilians as a threat to the early Federation (as well as the Coalition of Planets) despite the "fact" that the Aquatics, Arboreals and Primates join the Federation at some point (and perhaps the Insectoids, too).

It's not that the Klingon Empire isn't enough of a threat to the Coalition (or early UFP), but throwing in some other old favorites (i.e. Tholians, Gorn, Orions, etc.) as well as some new(er) ones (i.e. Xindi-Reptilians and Insectoids, Malurians, Suliban Cabal, Tandarans, etc.) and even some original species makes it a more interesting galaxy.

mactavish out.

[First of Two]

So I've been thinking more about this coalition. Lots of comments regarding it's formation as a prelude (or perhaps as the first step toward) the United Federation of Planets have affected my plans somewhat, but not too much.

I believe that these are two separate organizations. The coalition clearly includes Denobulans and Coridanites, while Daniels tells Archer that the Federation is created in 2161 and includes humans, Vulcans, Andorians and Tellarites. The other two races are not only not mentioned, but are clearly excluded from the formation of the UFP.

Probably (supported by the new book "The Good That Men Do") Coridan didn't get over its civil strife (among other problems,*)

*

 

Like having a Romulan warp core explode on their planet, killing billions.

to help found the Federation. We don't know what happened to the Denobulans, although various non-canon sources keep at least a few of them around into the 24th Century. Maybe the Romulans attacked their planet as well.

In any case, I was wondering what the primary difference between the two organizations are. The federation is just that: a federation. That is to say that the central government is powerful and the member worlds more or less subverted by Federation law. The coalition, on the other hand, is more like an alliance, where the member worlds are sovereign and the organization exists solely for trade (commerce and ideas/technologies) and defense.

I might suggest looking at the "Articles of Federation"- Era United States, before the Constitution was written. I suspect that they might suffer similar problems to the US of that Era.

[mactavish]

On a tangential issue, what colonies does Earth (humanity) have in the mid-22nd century? In "Twilight," T'Pol mentions Mars, Alpha Centauri, and Vega as colonies destroyed by the Xindi, and Admiral Forrest mentions Vega in another episode as well. I'm going to assume (since I know at least one episode mentioned New Berlin, a lunar colony cited by Riker in First Contact) that mankind formed at least one moon colony as well.

Now, if Proxima Centauri A [Alpha Centauri] has a human colony, then it is not likely a home for an independent Centauran species (as I've mentioned in multiple posts prior to this one). Would these colonies be considered independent of Earth? Mars and Luna are most certainly attached to Earth, but what about Vega and Alpha Centauri? Would they be considered independent members of the Coalition of Planets, or merely extensions of the worlds of the Sol system?

Originally, I believe that five worlds formed the United Federation of Planets: Earth, Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar and Alpha Centauri. Is this still feasible? Were there five worlds and four species (i.e. humans both in Sol and Alpha Centauri)?

A pre-Federation planetary coalition is nifty for a variety of reasons. Perhaps Alpha Centauri and Vega were merely extensions of Earth at that time (or perhaps not), but gained independence after the dissolution of the Coalition but prior to the foundation of the UFP. Maybe, on the other hand, Alpha Centauri is a separate and independent member of the Coalition of Planets and remains so into the days of the Federation. Centaurans are humans (as are Martians and Vegans), but choose to be known for their homeworld rather than their species. (Thus, Earth humans are Terrans.)

And so this then leads me to the following question: are there any human worlds that are NOT part of the Coalition of Planets and/or the United Federation of Planets? Are there any human colonies that either chose not to join or perhaps were annexed by the Klingon or Romulan Empires (or others)? While it seems unlikely that the Earth leadership (or the Coalition or the UFP) would let the Klingons (or whomever) get away with subjugating a human colony, but suppose the Romulans laid claim to a region of space with a newly-formed human colony and backed up that claim with ships and soldiers. Could this be a reason for war?

We know that there are at least a few colonies of humans throughout the galaxy not settled by humans. That is to say, we know of a Delta Quadrant human colony established c.1937 by the Briori, and the planet seen in "North Star" where humans were enslaved and transported there by the Skagarans (with whose ancestors they cohabitate). I'm sure there are more, including "lost colonies" like the one seen in "Terra Nova," as well.

Okay, back to the topic at hand. Are there other human worlds in the Coalition (and later, the UFP) that are not merely extensions of Earth?

mactavish out.

[mactavish]

On a note related to my above post, was the Federation formed by five planets (including the former human colonial holding of Alpha Centauri) or by four races?

I ask because, as above, I was wondering if it wasn't just Vulcan, but one or more additional worlds occupied by (but perhaps independent of) Vulcans, or Andoria and, say, a handful of their newly-independent colonies.

mactavish out.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I doubt Federation membership would be by genetic backround. Politically unified planets are states; species are not.

[Owen E Oulton]

Actually, it's never been officially established how many founding members there were in the Federation - the list of Earth, Vulcan, Tellar, Andor(ia) and Alpha Centauri originates with the Franz Joseph Designs Star Fleet Technical Manual.

(Oh, BTW, mactavish, Proxima Centauri is the distant third star of the Alpha Centauri ternary system, not the other way around.)

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Actually, it's never been officially established how many founding members there were in the Federation - the list of Earth, Vulcan, Tellar, Andor(ia) and Alpha Centauri originates with the Franz Joseph Designs Star Fleet Technical Manual.

(Oh, BTW, mactavish, Proxima Centauri is the distant third star of the Alpha Centauri ternary system, not the other way around.)

Uh, the whole "Founding of the Federation" thing was shown twice in Enterprise. There were four guys.

The issue of colony vs. actual colony vs. member world has never been resolved on screen, probably because they'll have to go back and rework their numbers or something, and massive digressions on how exactly the voting power of each planet is generated (probably population, but whatever...)