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Thread: Pre-Federation Coalition of Planets

  1. #1
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    Pre-Federation Coalition of Planets

    In the Enterprise episode "Terra Prime," Earth, Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar, Rigel, Denobula, and Coridan met in San Francisco to form the Coalition of Planets. Though human terrorists attempted to thwart the foundation of this alliance, the efforts of Captain Archer and the crew of NX-01 Enterprise managed to successfully deal with Terra Prime and help facilitate the formation of the aforementioned interspecies planetary union.

    Okay, so this pre-Federation - much like the League of Nations - served as a testing ground for a multiracial government. Certainly there were a variety of issues, particularly since the Vulcans were likely expected to relinquish their stranglehold on advanced technologies. Further, the extreme variation in cultures, politics, and patterns of thought would definitely require cooperation and compromise on all sides. The fact that the UFP was eventually founded by Earth, Vulcan, Andoria and Tellar (and without Denobula, Rigel or Coridan) is pretty telling as well. Much like the UN, several members of the League of Nations didn't jump right onboard when the latter dissolved, but many joined after the fact.

    What was the role of this Coalition in the Earth-Romulan War? I was under the impression that Earth and Romulus were the primary combatants and that humanity's allies provided materiel and tactical support. Given the events portented in "Terra Prime," I've been rethinking my previous scenario.

    Since the organization was a coalition, or a loose alliance, primarily focused on trade, combined scientific research, and cultural exchanges, the war was likely only between Earth and Romulus. However, it seems unlikely that the Vulcans - having patronized humanity for nearly 100 years - would suddenly quit mankind and leave it to its own devices. The Vulcan High Command would certainly provide all kinds of support, most certainly including weapon and shield upgrades, strategic information, and so on. The Andorian Imperial Guard, always eager for a fight, probably provided more direct support: ships, advisors, technology. They probably even sent small arms and other stuff just in case there was a close quarters combat situation (though all evidence suggests the war consisted only of ship-to-ship combat and surface bombardment from orbit).

    Tellarites, if anything, probably gave engineering assistance. Coridanites (?)... faster warp drives, perhaps. Denobulans probably provided scientific and medical aid as well as moral support. Rigellians? Uh... no clue.

    Was their any ground combat? Perhaps. But again, I'd say that any face-to-face combat involved Romulan-sponsored mercenaries rather than actual Romulan soldiers. Who would have fought for the Romulans? I'd say Klingons from the House of Duras (which could certainly be the impetus for the collaboration between that House and the Romulans in the 23rd and 24th centuries) and other, lower houses. I'd also guess that there would be Nausicaans, maybe some Orions, and various other individuals of various other races, warp-capable and otherwise.

    After reviewing this episode, I'm really thinking of moving my upcoming Series to 2155 so as to allow for Starfleet exploration of the region, support from the various coalition members, and the build-up to the Earth-Romulan War. Besides, a Starfleet prototype starship built with input and assistance from most or all of the Coalition of Planet member races - and crewed primarily by humans, but with advisors and the first Starfleet crewmen and officers from the other alien species - could be a really nice vessel to focus such a Series on. Of course, I am still partial to a space station Series, but I can certainly compromise.

    What are your thoughts? I know the purists may flout the Enterprise reboot regarding the pre-Federation alliance, but I think it provides a goodly amount of stuff to use between the end of Enterprise and the founding of the United Federation of Planets. A lot can happen in a year (before the Earth-Romulan War began) or six years (after the war and just prior to the founding of the UFP).

    Post your Episode ideas. While I have several, I'm always looking for the suggestions of my fellow ICONites.

    mactavish out.
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  2. #2
    Less than a decade before the war, the Vulcan government was controlled by the Romulans at its highest levels. That alone might explain why the Vulcans didn't offer assistance.

    The Andorians and the Tellarites, however, probably had a few ships the humans could borrow.
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    Yeah, I'd imagine that the Andorians would be itching for something to blow up. Just imagine if they knew that the Romulans were Vulcanoids! It would be the best of both worlds for them!

    The Tellarites are capable engineers, and I'm sure that their metallurgical science would definitely provide a great asset in hull construction.

    As for the fact that humans (and their allies) were unaware of what the Romulans looked like... is that canon? I mean seriously... how could you fight a war for five years and NEVER see the enemy?

    I know that the whole concept of Starfleet Marines is repugnant to many (including myself), but what about the MACOs? I'd assume they'd be part of any war involving Earth. They were special tactics types, though, and not simple infantrymen. They'd surely be used to rescue hostages, get into Romulan military facilities, provide support for Starfleet officers in the field, and so on, but not for large scale ground operations. Does the United Earth have a standing army during its pre-Federation days?

    Did the Romulans have outposts? Space stations? Orbital construction facilities? Did Starfleet (or other Earth or allied forces) get far enough into Romulan space to even find out?

    How close to Earth or other human-held planets did the Romulans get? I seem to recall that they attacked and destroyed human outposts or colonies, but did they get to the Sol system? Was the Mars Defense Perimeter active? Were there colonies on Mars (as there were on Luna)?

    Phase cannons? Photon torpedoes? Particle beam weapons? Plasma missiles? Disruptors? What weapons - personal or ship-based - were used? I think I recall nuclear weapons mentioned, but that seems kind of silly. How about deflector shields? Tractor beams? Better transporters? Higher warp speeds (thanks, Cordian)?

    Phlox mentions the inhabitants of the Bynaus system... presumably the Bynars (based on my recollection of his description of the process by which they replace parts of their brains with pieces of technology). How useful would a Bynar-enhanced computer core be?

    And hey, what about the Xindi? I think that - despite their circumstances post-Sphere Builder interference - the Xindi-Primates, Arboreals, and possibly Aquatics would be recovering from their ordeal, but perhaps willing to help out humanity. The Xindi-Reptilians and Insectoids, on the other hand, would likely be hostile neutrals or perhaps even actively working against mankind (whether independently or in concert with the Romulans).

    While the Temporal Cold War is said to be over, there are still former Cabal members running about, perhaps selling their skills as assassins, spies or mercenaries. Or perhaps the TCW is NOT over and the Cabal involves itself in the Earth-Romulan War for more sinister (and long-term) reasons. The Collective has interests as well, and a well-placed sphere temporally relocated to the Cheron system could prove disastrous for both the humans and the Romulans.

    Maybe the Krenim Imperium takes an interest in the events involving Earth and Romulus. Maybe Romulan interference in the Beta Quadrant somehow affects the Imperium and Annorax feels that erasing the Romulan diaspora is a key to rejuvenating his people. Wouldn't THAT throw a helluva wrench in the whole Earth-Romulan War? The eradication of the entire Romulan race?

    More. More. POST MORE!

    mactavish out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactavish

    As for the fact that humans (and their allies) were unaware of what the Romulans looked like... is that canon? I mean seriously... how could you fight a war for five years and NEVER see the enemy?
    Yes, it's canon. The entire "war" is a series of space battles, and all communication takes place over subspace radio. It's stated outright in "Balance Of Terror", and it's why everyone on that show is so stunned to see what a Romulan looks like when they get a signal from the other ship.
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    I don't think anything about the pre-federation alliance is not sensical: As you pointed out the league of nations existed before the UN, hence out of a tactical alliance grew a greater concept, the Federation.

    The Vulcans could be an unusual case. While they likely dropped their all out war with Andoria, freeing up much more of the Andorian resources to aid Earth, they suddenly had their culture up-ended, they probably did help, but I can see the shifts in their culture being the path to what we eventually see of Vulcan in the 22+ century, supporting the ideals of the federation, but largelly not participating much in thepractical aspects (aka people in ships!)

    With reference to the Maco's - to be honest Starfleet in the 22nd century was largelly ... small. Unlike later, when it expanded to encompass all the member worlds, it was hardly large enough to mount a full scale battle. We never saw more than a handful of ships! The Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians all had what the others in your list probably didn't - warships, especially the former two. So it's likelly even if they didn't give them ships, they heavily borrowed their technology, and perhaps crews for the battle. While I can see Starfleet's numbers being heavily beefed out with hand to hand crews, such as conventional 'military' by the sounds of it they wouldn't have had much to do, except for maybe skirmishes beforehand. It depends on how you want to turn the scenarios, but yes, if there was any sort of ground offensive, something like the Maco's would be deployed, as they were the best type of personnel for that job, in that era. I suspect in a post federation formation era, the militaries were probably all assimilated into Starfleet anyway It does occur to me that maybe the reason the Federation has those 4 founder members is precisely because.. they worked together, because they fought side by side, and forged a friendship that can't be as easilly won with simple words. It may have been those 4 were joined together preciselly because they knew they could trust each other, after that war.. then they let others in. The Coridans, Denobulans etc. may well have aided, but not in a significant way, so they didn't quite have that cohesion of unity, and common purpose: And of course the war it's self is probably exactly what triggered the idea of change it's self - as the first and second triggered in the forming of the UN, a desire for change and peace, after a bloody war!

    With regards to the secret war, that may have actually been precisely because some of the upper echelons of Vulcan had seen and interacted with the very generals the Humans faced on the battlefield, unknowingly. The Romulans may have feared exposure, not just in the sense that the Andorians might have got more jollies giving the Vulcanoids a good kicking, but because the exposure of that fact might have seen Romulan agents uncovered within Vulcan, who may have well still be there after the battle: Which in turn could lead to expanded shenanigans with the Romulans after that! Had that fact been revealed, while it would have caused repercussions within the nascent Federation, it would have revealed the Romulans ace in the hole, and been an own goal, with respects to espionage
    Ta Muchly

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    The LUG Andorian sourcebook, Among the Clans, indicates that the Andorians sat out the Earth-Romulan War because human warp technologies were superior to theirs. I'm going to take this to mean that Earth Starfleet acquired better engines from either the Vulcans or the Coridanites, both of whom had faster drives than both humans and Andorians at the time. Now, I don't assume that means that they didn't help in some fashion. Indeed, I still think that all of the races that formed the pre-Federation coalition offered something for the war effort. While the Andorian Imperial Guard may not have offered up ships or personnel, they may have helped out with tactical systems, sensors, or some other helpful technological components.

    I am quite sure that the Vulcans likely did help Earth in the war effort as well. The LUG Vulcan sourcebook, The Way of Kohlinar, suggests that the Vulcans attempted to stay out of mankind's conflict with the Romulans, but that their scientists, tacticians and xenologist discovered some familiarities between the tactics and behaviors demonstrated by the mysterious Romulans and the Vulcans that left the homeworld during Earth's 13th century. Despite their pointed efforts, the war ended before Vulcan researchers could piece the whole puzzle together. Further, the post-war push for alliance left the Romulan question unanswered for over a century.

    What about the Tellarites? I've guessed that they provided moral support, and probably materiel and design assistance as their human colleagues constructed new and better starships. What else did they do? Not that the above wasn't enough, but I would think they'd be a little more involved.

    The Denobulans - a species nearly as advanced as the Vulcans - may have provided similar tactical and scientific support, but given the Denobulan proclivity toward non-interference, it seems possible that their support may have been begrudgingly given. With Phlox's participation in the Interspecies Medical Exchange (as well as his deep respect for and odd fascination with mankind), I'd guess he and his colleagues would have provided the voice for supporting Earth against their unknowable foe.

    The Coridanites were corrupt and not particularly helpful toward humanity in the early 2150s. The Vulcans supported their elected (though clearly criminal) central government, while the Andorians offered aid to the elements opposed to that corrupt system. Starfleet got wrapped up in the unpleasantness thanks to mankind's curiousity. They went to Coridan for a visit and ended up in the middle of a fight between the Andorian-sponsored rebels and a Vulcan strike team. In the end, Coridan is left in much the same boat as when Enterprise arrived. It would seem, however, that with the help of the Vulcans, the Andorians, or both, Coridan began shaping up within a few years and even showed interest in the Coalition of Planets.

    I'm going to guess that the Vulcan High Command may have gone in with diplomatic envoys and helped the Coridanite central government clean house, exposing and eliminating at least some of the corruption, and the new government - beholden to their Vulcan saviors - assumed much the same role as humanity, operating under near-hegemonic Vulcan control. This could also explain their failure to immediately join the UFP later, especially if they broke free from Vulcan "assistance" (or the Vulcans abandoned them once their own government underwent its renaissance in 2154-5). Regardless, I'm going to operate under the assumption that the Coridanite government gave Earth schematics for improved warp engines as their contribution to the war effort.

    The Romulan Star Empire, clearly in possession of detailed information about most or all of the Coalition members (thanks, no doubt, to Tal Shiar operatives on the various homeworld, colonies, and neutral planets frequented by those races). Since the Romulans are clearly experts at subterfuge, they most likely have tactical information about Starfleet. However, Starfleet ships upgraded (or newly-built) with Coalition member [and probably jointly-developed] technologies would probably have given Earth the edge, since Utopia Planitia was definitely locked up tight during the war, preventing Romulan agents from collecting up-to-date information.

    NX-class ships were most certainly upgraded with better weapons, shields, tractor beams, and so forth. Other ships likely underwent similar improvements. In addition, jointly-designed vessels were certainly constructed at both human and alien shipyards, though I'm guessing that most were destroyed during or decommissioned shortly after the war's end. Nevertheless, the cooperatively-produced ship schematics surely laid the foundation for the first generation of UFP Starfleet vessels.

    The soundly-thrashed Romulans negotiated an armistice over subspace radio, established a demilitarized buffer between human and Romulan space, and retreated behind that zone for the next century, give or take a few years. Did they actually keep to themselves? I'm saying no, and I'll explain further in my next post.

    mactavish out.
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    Post Romulan espionage in the 22nd century

    The Romulans withdrew from the galactic scene in 2160. They certainly patrolled their borders to keep their enemies out, built outposts on both planetary surfaces and in space, and consolidated their empire during their decades-long isolation. What else did they do? Well, LUG says they fought the Taurhai Unity. They surely made efforts to establish new colonies and bring the Way of D'era to the various less advanced species in their area of influence.

    I consider the likelihood remote in the extreme that the Romulan Star Empire, knowing what they do of humanity and its allies, would simply abandon the region and let the impending United Federation of Planets grow unchecked. They would almost certainly maintain or increase their espionage efforts in human and Vulcan space. Their listening posts and surveillance systems along their borders would surely collect a lot of helpful information, but having undercover agents posing as Vulcans (as well as surgically-altered agents placed on many other worlds) would provide plenty of on-the-ground intel that the Romulans yearned for.

    The Romulans have no direct contact with Earth, Vulcan, or any other allied planet for many years. However, thinking that they would abandon their destiny of spreading D'era throughout the galaxy (as well as reclaim their homeworld, Vulcan) is ludicrous. They are far too interested in the business of their neighbors (and their own internal security) to simply give up their operations, even in the aftermath of a particuarly nasty defeat. The cold war between Earth and Romulus would have cooled very quickly, giving the Tal Shiar (or whatever that group's precursor was) ample time and opportunity to plant scores, even hundred of agents throughout the quadrant.

    On top of that, Romulan operatives were certainly in touch with elements of the Klingon Empire as well. The House of Duras, for example, provided the Romulan espionage agency with an open door to the region, and likely provided a clear path for the integration of new techologies into the Romulan Star Empire's arsenal. In exchange, Duras would have received monetary compensation, Romulan weapons and technologies (including rudimentary cloaking devices), and (probably) assurances that when the human threat was eliminated and Romulus controlled Earth and its colonies, the Klingon Empire in general and the House of Duras in particular would have favored status as Romulan allies. Surely a conspiracy of this sort paved the way for the eventual ill-fated Romulan-Klingon alliance of the 23rd century.

    Using Orion and Malurian middle men, Romulan agents would have been able to infiltrate Federation space easily. Romulan warships with improved cloaking devices could also travel undetected nearly anywhere, even the Sol or Epsilon Eridani systems (though they probably wouldn't). Captured and reverse-engineered Taurhai technologies could have given the Romulans an edge into the 24th century, improving their infrastructure from energy production to metallurgy. Thus, when the UFP re-encounters them in the 2360s, their vessels are as advanced (if not more so) than Starfleet's flagship, the U.S.S. Enterprise-D.

    Intrigue between both Starfleet Intelligence and the Federation Intelligence Service (and its precursor) could be great fun, particularly as the pursuit of Romulan deep cover agents across the sector leads them to Qo'nos, Rigel X, and various other locations. Discovering Romulan technologies integrated into rogue Xindi-Reptilian ships could prove very interesting, as could a miraculously cured (and warp-capable) Valakia, especially if they were using warp drives of Romulan design (undoubtedly provided by undercover Romulan agents posing as Valakians, or perhaps Malurian mercenaries performing a similar function on Romulus' behalf).

    Just some thought for a Series during and/or shortly after the Earth-Romulan War.

    mactavish out.
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    Sounds good, though it has to be said it may well be that Earth's warp engines were actually better than people initially thought.. The Vulcan's didn't have anything to do with them, nor did they want too, and I suspect it was because they thought the technology was somehow inferior, but it proved instead to be much superior. the Warp 5 project was designed as a testbed.. it maybe a few years after the NX01 - they launched new faster versions, up to maybe as much as warp 6.5 - the speed of the Vulcan ships, perhaps, dare I say it: The Daedalus class ships ! These then became the backbone of Early Starfleet as the most advanced, yet cost effective models (I view the Vulcan ships are more 'fine art' ships haha!) as the early Federation had to suddenly produce lots of them, perhaps accounting for their more 'boxy' style of the Daedalus class ships. I come to this conclusion, largelly because the Federation seems to be using the 'LN' (Linear) warp drive well into the 24th century, rather than Vulcan, Andorian or tellarite style designs! Ok so it's retcon, but it fits the facts... Also actually the only other spicies which uses the Linear style engines (The Klingons) in that era, also have some of the fastest ships (especially if we go with your Hurq' suppositions).

    With regards to the Romulans... Hmm, well just to reiterate what I was saying earlier: Maybe the Romulans pressed their advantage that no-one (beyond House Duras) knew what they looked like, and their heritage, and spent the decade working counter-intelligence in the Federation, posing as Vulcans! Could you imagine a better disguise as a spy: The Diplomats of the Federation!
    Ta Muchly

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    Besides the NX-class, I recall the Intrepid-class and the Neptune-class as being pre-Federation Starfleet vessels. The three experimental ships - NX-Alpha, Beta, and Gamma - were built as part of the Warp 5 Project. Finally, Starfleet also makes use of atmosphere-capable shuttlecraft and shuttlepods (as we saw Archer and Tucker viewing Enterprise from in "Broken Bow").

    Of course, the Daedalus-class was built just after the founding of the Federation in 2162, and several ships of this design were sent off to explore the galaxy in the name of the newly-formed United Federation of Planets.

    While I've not had time to compile ICON statistics for these ships as yet, here is an overview of two of them:

    The Neptune-class is a short range science survey vessel. With a maximum speed of 2.29 (~12c), it takes a Neptune-class vessel ten times as long to get where its going than the NX-class. These ships had a crew compliment of 66 (9 officers & 59 crewmen).

    The five ships of this class were:

    S.S. Neptune - VC-08
    S.S. Republic - VC-09
    S.S. Dauntless - VC-10
    S.S. Chesapeake - VC-11
    S.S. Nautilus - VC-12

    The Neptune-class operated from 2127-2160, the class finally being decommissioned just prior to the foundation of the United Federation of Planets in 2161.

    The Intrepid-class is a light cruiser. With a maximum speed of 4.16 (~72c), the Intrepid-class vessels served as medium-range explorers as well as perimeter defense vessels in the Sol system. These ships had a crew compliment of 78 (10 officers & 68 crewmen).

    The three ships of this class were:

    S.S. Intrepid - NC-13
    S.S. Excalibur - NC-14
    S.S. Shenandoah - NC-15

    The Intrepid-class operated from 2146-2170, well after the signing of the compact forming of the United Federation of Planets. Along with the NX-class, the three Intrepid-class vessels expanded human knowledge of the galaxy and made the region safer for colony ships and cargo vessels.

    What other Starfleet vessels has Earth put into space between its founding and the Earth-Romulan War? Did Starfleet produce other ship designs during this period?

    I'll put together some ICON statistics for the Intrepid and Neptune-class ships and post them later tonight or tomorrow.

    mactavish out.
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    Well yes, I am sure there is a design lineage for the Daedelus class ship. My point was they produce a 'cheaper' design, by virtue of the fact they need to produce a lot of them! It's like the first cars were hand built and often exquisitely finished and detailed, because they were one of a kind.. the production cars which came after them were boxy and functional
    Ta Muchly

  11. #11
    The Valiant-type rocket design I think is still canon, as is the early enterprise design that keeps popping up in background art (had the big ring like warp drive).
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    After the war with Romulus, I presume that Starfleet will have at least a few of their hastily-built warships left over. What do they do with them? Scrap them and reuse the parts? Continue using them as explorers and science survey vessels? Put them on the line as perimeter defense ships in the Sol system (and in other human colony systems)?

    What kinds of ships would the Earth Starfleet build for war? Do they simply refit the Intrepid, Neptune, and NX-class ships with better weapons and sensors? Do they have the workers at Utopia Planitia start cranking out size 1 and 2 fighters, bombers and destroyers?

    As I've already asked, do you suppose that the Andorians, Tellarites and Vulcans - all of whom clearly have ships of various sizes and for various reasons - turned some over to their human allies? Would Shran and his new vessel (assuming he got one after losing the Kumari) come to the aid of Starfleet? How about others?

    Who helped the Romulans? As I've written before, they seem to have quite the superiority complex and are unlikely to allow non-Romulans to serve aboard their ships. However, since they are only one people, I'd think they would also make use of privateers and mercenaries. While they might not do so in the 24th century, the 22nd century is a different setting and the Romulans may need the extra support. Of course, they might not, but the idea of having Nausicaan and Klingon men-at-arms attacking Starfleet and Earth Cargo Authority ships on behalf of Romulan sponsors could prove useful for the Star Empire and exteremly irritating to humanity.

    That's all for now, but there's more to come... Orions!

    mactavish out.
    Our country's past progress has been the result, not of the mass mind applying average intelligence to the problems of the day, but of the brilliance and dedication of wise individuals who applied their wisdom to advance the freedom and the material well-being of all of our people.

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    The Orions are the remnants of a 100,000+ year old civilization. They have long since declined and fallen into decadence and hedonism. Their society (if you can call it that) is based on trade, much like the Ferengi. They are extremely capitalism-based and there is a clear discrepancy between the haves and the have-nots.

    Based on the information about the Orion system that I copied from the RPG.net forums, it seems that the Orion system is actually the product of some very sophisticated planetary engineering, and even includes some planet-sized artificial objects. The ruins of the past Orion empires and other civilizations span the region, and there are many signficant scientific and archaeological discoveries to be made there.

    Now, the Orions are apparently situated between Romulan and Klingon space. They seem to have no trouble maintaing their neutrality as they are technologically advanced, extremely decentralized, and crafty enough as merchants to avoid any undue violence. The Romulans and Klingons know this, and would appear to maintain a similar stance out of respect and fear (of both commercial and military losses). One never wants to get on the Orions' bad side, as that is an open invitation to enslavement or, at the very least, lopsided trade concessions.

    I have a bit of a problem with some of the "fuzzy math" used in Star Trek Enterprise. Apparently the Orions' star system is about 773 light years from the Sol system. The fastest Starfleet vessel - NX-01 - travels at warp 5, or 125c (based on the old warp speed equation). That means it would have taken Enterprise over six years to reach that system. However, in "Broken Bow," they made it in a couple of days. I know this seems nitpicky, but who's off here? Is it my math or theirs?

    Putting that aside, I'd think that Starfleet exploration of the Orion sector could prove very interesting, exciting and entertaining. With the opening of trade negotiations with Orion merchants, Earth and its allies could be flooded with unique treasures, advanced technologies, medical advancements, and literally dozens of first contact scenarios (in the 22nd century, at least). With Orions, Rigellians, and Chelarians as only the tip of the iceberg, a Series involving meeting and greeting every alien vessel, stopping at every space station, and checking out every new civilization located on sensors could go on for years. In fact, such a region would be enough to fill a dozen campaigns.

    During the war between Earth and the Romulan Star Empire, surely the Orions would have remained neutral (as they had for millennia). However, the potential exists that Orion information merchants might offer useful tidbits about each side to the other. They might also have some interesting systems upgrades to offer, or even actual pieces of enemy technology. Getting a Romulan stealth system into Starfleet's hands would be really helpful for the war effort, regardless the cost.

    Given the neutrality of the Orions and their space, it could also prove and ideal meeting ground for Klingons, Tholians, Gorn, Suliban Cabal ships, Xindi, or just about any other hostile race. There are lots of places to fight, lots of places to hide, and the Orions are always nearby waiting to loot the wreckage and sell any survivors into slavery. It could even prove entertaining as an introduction to the Q (or another nigh-omnipotent race), even if that's not strictly canon.

    On top of all that, there are Orion slave women. I mean come on... who could ask for more?

    mactavish out.
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  14. #14
    Remember that "Rigel VII = Orion" only in LUG/CODA.
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  15. #15
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    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    3,462
    No actually there are 2 basic problems with the mix and match data available...

    The Orions are not really pinned down in Canon, except for one basic fact... the Star (Rigel) is, as you say 700+ light years away BUT there is another system MUCH closer, somewhere between Earth space and Qo'nos - there are 2 'Rigels' - Ours (in the Astronomy sense) and a planet known as Rigel, as translated from Klingon, much closer to Earth.

    Much of the rest of the information about the Orions as you have noted is contradictory. the 'Rigel' system is actually to the galactic south, whereas Qo'nos is South East, and Romulans North East.. this is from the Maps based on TNG... (Such as the excellent Starcharts!) There are however another set of maps which orient the Romulans and Klingons COMPLETELY differently, (From the Starfleet technical manual, by Franz Joseph) which is more or less what the 'Triangle' campaign of the Fasa era draws from.. hence why that is confusing!

    I guess what the problem you have is deciding which set of maps to use.. If you go with he Fasa/ Franz Joseph maps, or the TNG+ / Starcharts maps - To actually feasibly use the 'Triangle' capaign, you need to use the Former, because there is NO WAY that either Rigel systems lie anywhere near the Romulan/Federation/Klingon borders in the new era maps....

    That said with a little fudging of names etc.. it's quite possible to subtly alter certain facts so it works better. The Orions, who's civilisation spanned much of the whole Orion arm (our neighbourhood and more) likely has dozens of colony and client worlds.. And with various fractures over 100,000 years, there could easily be several offshoots who all believe they are the 'real' Orions, and maybe Dozens of 'Rigel' like systems about haha: Certainly this is consistent with them being a huge trade based empire in the Pre Tos era
    Ta Muchly

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