B5 Examples (ICON)

[Meteo]

For the sake of simplicity, I will be doing this in Basic ICON, instead of Spacedock

Omega Class Destroyer

Size: 8
Resistance: 4
Structural Points: 160

Crew: 250
Passengers: 85
Evac: 900
Power Cost: 6
Computers: 4 [4]
Transporters: :-)
Tractor Beams: >-D

Jumpdrive: ...yes [6]
Sublight Drive: .2c/.4c [2/4]
Power: 160

Sensors: +2 [4]
NavGrid: +1 [4]]

Particle Beams
Arc: 640 Degrees
Range: 1/2/5/6
Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
Damage: 10
Power: [10]

Laser Cannons
Arc: 120 Degrees Forward
Range: 4/6/9/20
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 24
Power: [24]

Pulse Cannons
Arc: 120 Degrees Forward
Range: 3/6/8/13
Accuracy:4/5/7/10
Multifire: up to 5 full damage shots per round
Damage: 14
Power: [32]

Fusion Missiles
Number: 24 per Launcher
Launchers: 2 fv
Spread: 1
Range: 4/6/9/16
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 15
Power: [5]

Minbari Sharlin Class War Cruiser

Size: 8
Resistance: 4
Structural Points: 160

Crew: 190
Troops: 8000
Passengers: 60
Evac: 9500
Power Cost: [7]

Jump Drive: Yes [8]
Sublight Drive: .2/.7c [2/7]
Power: 190

Sensors: +2 [6]
NavGrid: +2 [6]

Fusion Cannons
Arc: 640 degrees
Range: 5/8/12/22
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 14
Power: []

Neutron Lasers
Arc: 180 degrees forward
Range: 6/9/12/29 86
Accuracy: 4/5/7/11
Damage: 20
Power: [20]

Fusion Missiles
Number: 24 per Rack
Launchers: 2 fv
Spread: 1
Range: 5/8/14/20
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 18
Power: [5]

Sensor Jammer
Weapon Roll: -6
Power: [6]

Centauri Primus Class Battlecruiser

Size: 7
Resistance: 5
Structural Points: 140

Crew: 320
Passengers: 90
Troops: 500
Evac: 5000
Power Cost: [7]

Jump Drive: Yes [6]
Sublight Drive: .15/.2c [1/2]
Power: 160

Sensors: +2 [5]
NavGrid: +2 [5]

Twin Arrays
Arc: 680 Degrees
Range: 2/5/6/8
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Multifire: 2 shots at full damage
Damage: 10
Power: [10]

Battle Lasers
Arc: 180 degrees forward
Range: 6/8/15/23
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 22
Power: [22]

Fusion Missiles
Number: 30 per Launcher
Launchers: 2 fv
Spread: 1
Range: 4/6/8/9
Accuracy: 4/5/7/11
Damage: 20
Power: [5]

Narn G'Quan Class Heavy Cruiser

Size: 8
Resistance: 4
Structural Points: 160

Crew: 250
Troops: 800
Passengers: 20
Evac: 4500
Power Cost: [7]

Jumpdrive: Yes [6]
Sublight Drive: .15c/.2c [1/2]
Power: 150

Sensors: +2 [6]
NavGrid: +1 [4]

Twin Arrays
Arc: 680 degrees
range: 4/6/8/9
Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
Damage: 10
Power: [10]

Laser Cannons
Arc: 120 Degrees Forward
Range: 6/8/12/20
Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
Damage: 24
Power: [24]

Pulse Cannons
Arc: 120 Degrees Forward
Range: 5/8/14/19
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Multifire: 5 shots per round at full damage
Damage: 20
Power: [20]

Energy Mines
Number: 40 per Launcher
Launchers: 2
Spread: 1
Range: Leaves mines in current space
Accuracy: When the enemy goes to the same space as the mine, or 1 space away
Damage: 20
Power: [5]

[JALU3]

Omega Class Destroyer

Size: 8
Resistance: 4
Structural Points: 160

Crew: 250
Passengers: 85
Evac: 900
Power Cost: 6
Computers: 4 [4]
Transporters: :-)
Tractor Beams: >-D

Jumpdrive: ...yes [6]
Sublight Drive: .2c/.4c [2/4]
Power: 160

Sensors: +2 [4]
NavGrid: +1 [4]]

Particle Beams
Arc: 640 Degrees
Range: 1/2/5/6
Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
Damage: 10
Power: [10]

Laser Cannons
Arc: 120 Degrees Forward
Range: 4/6/9/20
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 24
Power: [24]

Pulse Cannons
Arc: 120 Degrees Forward
Range: 3/6/8/13
Accuracy:4/5/7/10
Multifire: up to 5 full damage shots per round
Damage: 14
Power: [32]

Fusion Missiles
Number: 24 per Launcher
Launchers: 2 fv
Spread: 1
Range: 4/6/9/16
Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
Damage: 15
Power: [5]

I would argue that their size would be greater, their structural strength would be lower (due to lack of evidence of advanced construction material), and the Fusion Missile, would be in line with those stated in Spacedock (with damage divided by 10). Furthermore, the crew size and the shuttle complement are already established by onscreen statements.

A good attempt, to be sure, just needs tweeking. That's why we are here to give us your opinion. It's just up to you if you decide to accept our opinion to modify your right up. Because in the end, you can decide the stats of your vessels however you'd like in your game.

May I suggest the following:



Omega Class Starship
Class and Type: Omega Class Destroyer
Commissioning Date: 2245*
Hull Characteristics
-Size: 12
-Resistance: 2
-Structural Points: 260
Operations Characteristics
-Crew/Passangers:
[11 Power/round]367/1000
-Computers: 3
[3 Power/round]
-Transports: N/A
-Tractor Beams: N/A
Propulsion and Power Characteristics
-Jump Gate Initiator**
[2 Power/round]
-Ion Drive: .1c/.4c
[1/4 Power/round]
-Power: 110
Sensor Systems
-Long Range Sensors: N/A
-Lateral Sensors: +1/1 light-year
[4 Power/round]
-Navigation Sensors: +2
[5 Power/round]
-Sensor Skills: 4
Weapons Systems
Heavy Particle Lasers
-Range: 1000/3000/10000/30000
-Arc: Front & Rear (360 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
-Damage: 10
-Power: [10]
Heavy Pulse Cannons
-Range: 1000/3000/10000/30000
-Arc: Front & Rear (360 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
-Damage: 16
-Power: [16]
Partilce Lasers
-Range: 100/300/1000/3000
-Arc: All (720 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
-Damage: 4
-Power: [4]
Pulse Cannons
-Range: 100/300/1000/3000
-Arc: All (720 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
-Damage: 8
-Power: [8]
Fusion Missiles
-Range: 100/300/1000/3000
-Arc: Front & Rear (360 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
-Damage: 10
-Power: [5]
Weapon Skills: 5
Defensive Systems
Mark II Defense Grid Energy Projectors
-Protection: 8/12
-Power: [8]

*Alternate Timeline
**Is not equiped with a Jump Point Generator

This should match the right up found in the TNG Core book, or atleast the format atleast. I based the pulse cannons of the power chart for disruptors, and the Lasers, on well Lasers. The Defensive Systems are based on SIFs.

[Meteo]

...Okay...

I don't know about the defense grid thing... I might add interceptors in a future version.

And I'm not sure about aft missiles... were those shown, or did you just guess?

Otherwise, fairly nifty, I'll consider this.

[Tobian]

Hmm it seems quite overpowered given our discussion on the matter

One thing I did notice though is that the Jump drive should be taking up a big giant fat lot of power (when used) Or is it that you are just stating it's 'standby' power useage? While I am not familiar with any other roleplaying suplements detailing B5 technology (beyond onscreen information but only larger ships or special 'jump gates' had enough power to form jump points, which suggests a huge power useage, if only for a short period

Also I notice you're ranges have increased massively over Meteo's - based more on 'ICON' pre-made systems. What's the ranges listed in the B5 game system? And surelly the missiles should be longer range than the energy weapons? While high energy laser beams have a theoretically infinite range, their particle element, which presumably is the bit that does damage, likely won't that and accuracy on them should be hard!

I think perhaps emphasis on heavy armour and the sheer bulk of it would be what makes this pretty lethal even if the weapons are 'underpowered' compared to Trek type weapons (though I would think they are AS powerful if shorter ranged IMHO but that's your choice)

[JALU3]

And I'm not sure about aft missiles... were those shown, or did you just guess?

I can't remember where I found it last night, as Google is no longer providing the link . . . but it is stated somewhere on the net that the main weapons are alligned both for and aft. Furthermore if you look at the model you can see the laser and pulse weapons both at the front and the rear of the craft.

One thing I did notice though is that the Jump drive should be taking up a big giant fat lot of power (when used) Or is it that you are just stating it's 'standby' power useage? While I am not familiar with any other roleplaying suplements detailing B5 technology (beyond onscreen information but only larger ships or special 'jump gates' had enough power to form jump points, which suggests a huge power useage, if only for a short period

Now, this goes into the discussion of jump gates, and B5 hyperspace. For in their universe, only ships equiped with a jump point generator, can initiate their own individual jump point into Hyperspace. I have not seen, in my memory, an Omega Class Destroyer form its own jump point. If they have, that is my mistake and I will agree that a jump point generator would take massive amounts of power . . . maybe up to [100-200].

Also I notice you're ranges have increased massively over Meteo's - based more on 'ICON' pre-made systems. What's the ranges listed in the B5 game system? And surelly the missiles should be longer range than the energy weapons? While high energy laser beams have a theoretically infinite range, their particle element, which presumably is the bit that does damage, likely won't that and accuracy on them should be hard!

Now as far as the range is concerned . . . I would point out that 1.61kilometers ,which is the standard form of measurement in the Star Trek Universe, equals one mile. If you take current ranges as any indication of what is considered visual range . . . I would say that an M1 (of any variant) has an effective range up to 3 miles . . . and I would say that on a clear day, which is visual range, one can see from a 10 story building (roughly 100 feet of elevation) one should be able to see out to 11.6 nautical or 13.46 statute miles to the horizon.

OK . . . I see your point 30,000 km is way to far . . . then may I suggest something equal to 25 miles = 40.23 Km as the farthest distance for the two main energy weapons

This would have me modify my range on the main weapons to be as follows:
2/4/20/40

And since I go about half with the non main, more defensive oriented weapons, it's range would be as follows:
1/2/10/20

Now due to the reduction of the laser weapons range . . . then the ranges listed for the fusion missiles now make sense.

Now I guess I could use critiquing on the weapons damage. Now I would argue that they are no where as powerful as the Shadow Beam Weapon, which has been equated in other threads on this forum as equal to a Borg Cutting Weapon . . . therefore, we have to look at it as closer to the most powerful laser weapons in Spacedock, or to mid to low level weapons on the disruptor chart for the pulse weapons.

[IceGiant]

In the episode "Severed Dreams" an Omega class appears through a gate right next to the normal jump gate to B5. So yeah, they have jump engines

Hyperions have them as well. They are the smallest earthforce vessel so equipped.

[Tobian]

Whether it's been seen or not I would think that anything big enough in B5 should have a jump engine, as it seems to be half the point of having big ships - portable jump engines! Before the later 'uberweapons' were introduced in the series, most weapons exchanges happened with 'fighters' (the Starfures) and fairly close personal and up-close combat - and the big ships were as much there to get them in and out of combat as they were to fight themselves!

Accuracy in space is the biggest problem to super long-range beam weapons. In Trek they have super advanced sensor suites, which are capable of pinpointing locations that accurately while flying round at fractions of the speed of light! By indication of the heavy use of VERY fragile fighters, I am guessing that their weapon accuracy is not nearly so high, rendering them extremely useful in that context. So it's not so much the range they can travel as how accurately they can be fired - so larger vessels do present an easier target too! Missiles aren't so problematic as they will likely have a measure of self guiding anyway

[JALU3]

OK, everyone. Thanks for the feadback. Let me post up the new version:

Omega Class Starship
Class and Type: Omega Class Destroyer
Commissioning Date: 2245*
Hull Characteristics
-Size: 12
-Resistance: 2
-Structural Points: 260
Operations Characteristics
-Crew/Passangers:
[11 Power/round]367/1000
-Computers: 3
[3 Power/round]
-Transports: N/A
-Tractor Beams: N/A
Propulsion and Power Characteristics
-Jump Point Generator
[120 Power/round]
-Ion Drive: .1c/.4c
[1/4 Power/round]
-Power: 121
Sensor Systems
-Long Range Sensors: N/A
-Lateral Sensors: +1/1 light-year
[4 Power/round]
-Navigation Sensors: +2
[5 Power/round]
-Sensor Skills: 4
Weapons Systems
Heavy Particle Lasers
-Range: 2/4/20/40
-Arc: Front & Rear (360 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 6/7/9/12
-Damage: 10
-Power: [10]
Heavy Pulse Cannons
-Range: 2/4/20/40
-Arc: Front & Rear (360 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 6/7/9/12
-Damage: 16
-Power: [16]
Partilce Lasers
-Range: 4/5/7/10
-Arc: All (720 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
-Damage: 4
-Power: [4]
Pulse Cannons
-Range: 1/2/10/20
-Arc: All (720 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 4/5/7/10
-Damage: 8
-Power: [8]
Fusion Missiles
-Range: 100/300/1000/3000
-Arc: Front & Rear (360 Degrees)
-Accuracy: 5/6/8/11
-Damage: 10
-Power: [5]
Weapon Skills: 5
Defensive Systems
Mark II Defense Grid Energy Projectors
-Protection: 8/12
-Power: [8]

*Alternate Timeline

[Tobian]

Looks pretty good, though the only thing I would amend is you give it a couple of more points of power...

"Sir, we have opened the Jump point." Excellent, uhm, but I can't see it on my screen.. wait, I can't see anything, the computer just powered down..." Uh, the engines just cut out too, and life support just collapsed: We can look at it out of the windows, but we can't get to it.."

It could use just enough power to power the basic systems: Life support, computers and engines. It's not too clear onscreen, but usually the ships seem to open the jum point then fly in with their regular engines...?

[IceGiant]

I would also recommend getting rid of the missiles. The only time actual missiles are shown being used is aboard Thunderbolt starfurys when they crack one of the domes on mars. And on the defense platforms around earth.

All other weapons are shown as energy weapons.

[JALU3]

Looks pretty good, though the only thing I would amend is you give it a couple of more points of power...

"Sir, we have opened the Jump point." Excellent, uhm, but I can't see it on my screen.. wait, I can't see anything, the computer just powered down..." Uh, the engines just cut out too, and life support just collapsed: We can look at it out of the windows, but we can't get to it.."

It could use just enough power to power the basic systems: Life support, computers and engines. It's not too clear onscreen, but usually the ships seem to open the jum point then fly in with their regular engines...?

OMG! I just bust myside laughing so hard . . . thanks . . . I needed to wake up that :-)

So power should actually be 150 . . . which is almost as much as the Galaxy Class which is rated at 160.

Actually that would be hillarious that if the power of the generator was so power hungry that they had to move everyone to emergency shelters for a short period . . . power down almost everything for a round or two . . . already have a fast enough forward momentum to enter the jump point.

But with a size 12 vessel, 160 is in all actuality a really small powerplant . . . but for them to still be fusion engines and put out that much power . . . they would have to be massive . . . or is that why the ship is so large and normally crews between 300-500 souls?

[Captain Otto]

It's not too clear onscreen, but usually the ships seem to open the jump point then fly in with their regular engines...?

As far as I know this is the principle behind this. The Gates allow ships without Jump Engines to travell faster than light through Hyperspace. Military Ships get the advantage to Open their own access to Hyperspace but other Ships can travel through these Openings as well. Even in Hyperspace the ships move with conventional propulsion systems. But since it occurs outside normal space the distances that can be covered at once are much greater. As far it was explained like this in the first B5 RPG by Chameleon Eclectic. Probably the B5 Supplements by Mongoose provide a better explanation.

[Tobian]

haha it doesn't need a huge ammount more. You could even get by without life support for 30 seconds, it's not like you vent the atmosphere to space, but engines, controll interfaces and sensors are kind of a must Since we do see them flying round using their conventional burn engines inside hyperspace all the way through the show, they do need them online, it's nothing like 'warp drive'. In a way it might make sense for them to actually have much lower power output - and have a special 'jump generator' which they bring online JUST for that purpose. However the rules don't really cover that in ICON.

[JALU3]

Well remember, the only thing that drains the power is openning and closing the jump point. It appears that the jump point closes on its own if not feed the huge amount of energy that it takes to continue to sustain it. What jump gates due do, that Jump point Generators do do, is provide intra-hyperspace beacons, which are used to triangulate one's position in comparison to regular space. And without those beacons, one becomes lost in hyperspace.

Unfortunatly, as the show shows, their long range sensor systems are not nearly advanced as those in Star Trek, and are limited to sub-light sensor systems, and the constraints to Einstien/Newtonian physics . . . as compared to Chochranian physics . . . so when a beacon is lost . . . then the range of travel in hyperspace is reduced that much more.

One way to consider this is the same way one would use warp coasting as a way of describing this form of travel, but in a realm of subspace not yet known in the Star Trek Universe, and without the speed degredation.

But to move off topic for a minute here. If one were to have a Star Trek Vessel in the Babylon 5 universe, in an offensive position, it would have a strong tactical advantage of not having to rely on choke point jump gates for movement, and would be able to quickly out manuever anything in the universe . . . and be able to control the flow of commerce, logistics, and OPFOR movements, by targetting the jump gates, thus removing the beacons that are relied on heavily within the B5 Hyperspace.

Furthermore, if a B5 vessel were attempt to use hyperspace in the Star Trek Universe, and as distances within Hyperspace are not a constant in comparison to distances in nromal space, without the beacons within the Star Trek Universe's Hyperspace (if it exist that is) a ship in hyperspace would be lost, or be travelling distances unknown to the vessel in hyperspace . . . as it appears to be in a constant internal flux. Therefore, one can pop out into a planet, destroying the planet in the process and the ship due to the large amount of matter coming at it through the jump point that was once a planet.

Therefore, to use a B5 Jump Point Generator in a universe without hyperspace/normal space beacons, would be outright dangerous.

[JALU3]

haha it doesn't need a huge ammount more. You could even get by without life support for 30 seconds, it's not like you vent the atmosphere to space, but engines, controll interfaces and sensors are kind of a must Since we do see them flying round using their conventional burn engines inside hyperspace all the way through the show, they do need them online, it's nothing like 'warp drive'. In a way it might make sense for them to actually have much lower power output - and have a special 'jump generator' which they bring online JUST for that purpose. However the rules don't really cover that in ICON.

Well what would you assume would be a good power output for four standard Fusion Reactors in game terms? Assuming that it takes [100] points of power to warm up a jump point generator (say 5 rounds), initiate the jump point (say 1 round), and to mantain it (as many rounds as it takes for the vessel to reach the jump point, or to keep it open for the usage of other vessels it wishes) . . . therefore for each of those rounds they are using [100] power/round.

Say 130 Power produced in any given round?