Alterniverses

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Well, if they crawled their way off-world, they might become another species of alien trash too concerned with internal politics to effect anyone.

Assuming they DID get their act together, it might make them hyper-individualist and clannish as a culture. Given, say, human vivacity, I could see them slowly carving out a section of space similar to the Andorians, and getting into conflict with the Vulcans for the same reasons. As much as I don't want to make the comparison, it would probably look like B5.

...so, taking that track, the Andorians could be the Centauri, the Vulcans Minbari, and the Tellarites Narn, and then there's all those tiny governments...

[Tobian]

It all depends on why the Vulcans didn't notice I guess! If it was interference, then that could make for a cool 'hide from the Vulcans, 21st century humans, Borg AND the Enterprise E' mission hahaha.

If it was because Vulcans weren't there, period, then that's of course a whole other ball game, and the whole political nature of the area would be completelly different.

If it were just a case of 'we didn't send out scouting mission E3358 this month' then I am not sure it would make THAT much difference, because, given the amount of spacefaring the ulcans do in their local group, I suspect the Vulcans would be the first alien species to bump in to us. Without the spark to the imagination that 'aliens exist', I doubt Starfleet would suddenly spring into being, nor would the Earth suddenly just get over the apocolypse it just had (Vulcans helped us out with that a lot!) So by the time we got together a Space programme, i suspect first contact would have been made with the Vulcans, and it just went ahead.. slightly later, much as before, with a few subtle differences.

[JALU3]

Well without the Vulcans, we would have never have been introduced to the Centarians who provided the advance technology to revitalize the Earths poisoned atmosphere . . . this would mean that it would take much longer for those of us on Earth to recover from the "post Apocolyptic" nuclear horror . . . this means that once mankind was able to successfully, and regularly, make manned interplanetary . . . then intersteller missions . . . mankind may be very different politically then when they were introduced to the sector by the Vulcans. Furthermore, they wouldn't have the stabalizing influence (and someone say condesending and inhibiting) of the Vulcans.

This means that certain technologies which we may have been introduced to, early on, may have come later, making how our ships function, and how easily we got around, changes greatly.

As for the andorian statement, I think we can be very similar . . . but I have to wonder what philosiphies will dominate in the post apocolyptic world . . . how will mankind's behavior, change due to these dominances. For instance a world where theocratic islamist or ultraconservative christianity were dominate would differ greatly from a world of socialist humanist, or hpyercapatilistic libertarians.

[jadehorde]

Having watched the "Voth" episode of VOY (Origin, i think is the title), I came up with this one:

One Galaxy Under Voth:

Divergence point: Rather than evacuate the planet, the Voth save their world. So, 65 million years ago, Voth Prime (Earth to us 314's) is host to a space faring race. So, when the Vulcans, Klingons and everyone else got warp capable, the Voth were there, ancient and wise and WAAAY more advanced. Soon, either by Diplomacy, war or trade, the Voth have created a virtual utopia.

Ok, i know we all hate the "altered world is better than ours" scenerio, but there are a couple of ways to throw 'serpents in the garden'

Maybe the Voth havent been as 'benificent' and 'giving' as they appear to be; perhaps they've been culturally engineering worlds to suit their needs. Maybe there is unrest amoungst the members of the Voth Union (Klingons and Cardassians probably). Maybe the Borg are coming, and there is nothing they can do to stop them.

Or, maybe a crew of a small ship from something called "The Federation of Planets" shows up, and they claim to be from the third planet of the Sol system, that many of the Union members are allies and developed independently in their reality, and that they know how to change it.

There are potentially other races that might have resisted the Voth, especially given how slowly they apparently advance.

The various Trek godbeings might be corporeal around this time, or the First Federation/Iconians might be a nascent stellar group at this time. It's true that the odds are low even these would be around so long ago, but it is possible and likely SOMEONE was around then to resist.

[jadehorde]

Yeah, it seems weird that there'd be even roughly equal growth like that–especially given that whoever gets ahold of, say, forcefields first would stick almost-impenetrable weapons platforms in Earth orbit and bomb the shit out of whoever the other side is. Trek-technology would make a planetary civil war difficult to maintain like that. The Tal Shiar would be just as likely to use the CIA as the KGB, too, assuming they wouldn't hollow out both sides to use as puppet governments.

Maybe, IRL, the US had nukes for 4 years but didn't use them on the Soviets. That WAS early on, but somewhat similar jumps in techs by both sides occurred without resulting in nuclear fire.

I'd go with the Vulcans pushing NATO tech up the tree, but with the MAJOR stick of taking away the toys if the humans didn't use them responsibly. Stick a D'kyr in orbit and DARE the NATO forces into calling that bluff with the smidgeons of tech the Vulcans have slowly dolled to humanity.

Actually it would be the Vulcans that would mostly force a unification. IE if you want all this tech then you better get with the program. Soviets have to give up one party hegemony but get their otherwise economic utopia (that they gave lipservice to and now have to honor), and the Americans have to give up some of their capitalistic excesses for awesome creature comforts.

Though I'd personally love to play a game like Galactic Civs where such an option was available. Where the Chinese, EU, and Americans are (while much reduced from the total Fed) still viable stellar empires.

I always kind of found the whole idea kind of goofy. I mean, Yugoloths and shit would make cool aliens, but making the source of demon-legends across the galaxy actually just aliens that have spikes and are still eeevil seemed kind of lame. And also, the whole poppet-thing seemed tacked-on, and not really... scary?




Try this: the 'fear beam' is, in fact, part of a larger weapon system/civilisation/lifeform that creatures physical vestiges based on the psychic emanations of fear. Imprinting with monster-shapes, it creates them as its emissaries to the humanoid civilisations, which build nodes of horror around the mouths of the gate-rips leading to the heart of the hell-thing. Perhaps it feeds on the pain and terror, perhaps it's acting according to some ancient instructions, maybe both...

Always thought of 8472 as basically Lovecraftian horrors in Trek. Given their insane abilities, general aggressiveness and looks, and even their home, fluidic space, like an amoebic sea.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Necroooooo'd

Always thought of 8472 as basically Lovecraftian horrors in Trek. Given their insane abilities, general aggressiveness and looks, and even their home, fluidic space, like an amoebic sea.

What bothers me about 8472 is how unsuited to their actual environment they seem. It's a giant blobby ocean of stuff, in which we don't see any planets or superstructures (but there could be).

This leads me to two possible conclusions:

1. There are larger organisms that 8472 evolved inside, as parasites. These things may be so huge as to be continent-sized, and there may be living whale-planetoids deep inside fluidic space that are the heart of 8472's civilization. The bioships may have originated as the local equivalent of electric eels, and domesticated by 8472 as beasts of burden.

Episode ideas: The ships may have been 'uplifted' by 8472, and are now technically an enslaved species. A half-destroyed ship, now lacking crew, may reach out to another ship (the Crew's) and seek help. Of course, the ship may not understand that the Crew's ship is not sentient, or that it is not enslaved by its crew.

2. The entirety of fluidic space, from the dimensional framework, to the bioships, to 8472 itself, were created by Arturis's people to overwhelm the Borg.

Episode ideas: Without Species 116's slipstream generators, the dimensional framework of fluidic space begins to falter, and 8472 has to relocate their civilisation to the Delta Quadrant. Having little regard for other species, they attempt to convert large sections of the quadrant into Fluidic nebulae. Unfortunately, they'd destroy thousands of worlds in the process.

[jadehorde]

Necroooooo'd



What bothers me about 8472 is how unsuited to their actual environment they seem. It's a giant blobby ocean of stuff, in which we don't see any planets or superstructures (but there could be).

This leads me to two possible conclusions:

1. There are larger organisms that 8472 evolved inside, as parasites. These things may be so huge as to be continent-sized, and there may be living whale-planetoids deep inside fluidic space that are the heart of 8472's civilization. The bioships may have originated as the local equivalent of electric eels, and domesticated by 8472 as beasts of burden.

Episode ideas: The ships may have been 'uplifted' by 8472, and are now technically an enslaved species. A half-destroyed ship, now lacking crew, may reach out to another ship (the Crew's) and seek help. Of course, the ship may not understand that the Crew's ship is not sentient, or that it is not enslaved by its crew.

2. The entirety of fluidic space, from the dimensional framework, to the bioships, to 8472 itself, were created by Arturis's people to overwhelm the Borg.

Episode ideas: Without Species 116's slipstream generators, the dimensional framework of fluidic space begins to falter, and 8472 has to relocate their civilisation to the Delta Quadrant. Having little regard for other species, they attempt to convert large sections of the quadrant into Fluidic nebulae. Unfortunately, they'd destroy thousands of worlds in the process.

Sorry about the thread necromancy. Just discovered this place and of course HAD to respond.

Great ideas. Typical Voyager that they chanced upon an interesting storyline/plot and they had to go and ruin it a couple seasons down the line with the "8472 is completely reasonable, and they were just understandably angered by the Borg and subsequent help by Voyager". An implacable enemy. No ideological/territorial issues like the Klingons/Roms. No perversion of the Fed like the Dominion. Not even the rapacious hunger of the Collective. This enemy simply wants to eliminate you and otherwise has no interest in you.

[C5]

I'm glad this thread was resurrected, because I managed to miss it when it appeared.
I particularly love alterniverses, and I will try to post some as they come to mind.

But just a strange idea I had when reading this thread : what if Earth in Trek is exactly our Earth (well... let's suppose the only difference is that the aliens in Star Trek have a different make up and name).
No Eugenic wars, no mission to Jupiter by the end of the 20th century. Now for the difference to matter we would have to extrapolate a future roughly coherent with our present but far enough from that of Trek.
For instance, there may be a World War 3 (starting probably in the Middle East), but nothing too extreme to shatter the civilization. Maybe the USA and EU would slowly collapse in power as the China Republic rises economically. Maybe Earth could turn to a Cyberpunk-like world, with corporations stronger than states and a omnipresent Internet and technology.
The space race evolves much more slowlier, with a progressive exploitation of the solar system with ships that eventually reach speeds around 0.001c (which is enough to reach the closest planets).

Now flash forward to 22nd century or even before. The solar system is mostly colonized or mapped, and Earth is divided among various corporations, factions, and states. The Vulcans and Andorians eventually see the interest of the system for their cold war and try to sneak outposts, covertly study the population, or even rally some factions to their cause. Maybe the Klingons step in too.
Around the beginning of the 23rd century, the various races composing the Federation in the "normal" Trekverse would be now separated among different factions warring against each other (Vulcans and Denobulans against Andorans and Tellarite, for instance, while Betazed tries to mediate and Klingons and Romulans are playing the various factions against each other). Humans are scattered between these different factions, and parts of the solar system may be warring against each other to the benefit of the various factions.

May be a bit close First of Two balkanized Federation, actually.