Clones?

[stule]

I am running a story about a scientist that is experimenting with genetics. He is making clones with the capability of downloading their conciousness to another body (like the Cylons of BSG).

The idea for the story is that a Clone could go on a dangerous mission, carry it out, and if he died, he would download into another body and his information would not be lost.

My question is, is cloning legal in Star Trek?

Would he have to keep it secret or would his project be sponsored by the Federation?

I was thinking that he would have to keep it a secret because I can't find any info supporting cloning in the Federation.

Anyone know?

[JALU3]

I was thinking that he would have to keep it a secret because I can't find any info supporting cloning in the Federation.

Anyone know?

There was an episode of DS9 where it showed that cloning within the Federation was considered illegal, but to kill a clone carried the same weight as killing a naturally born individual. However, it maybe possible, that this falls into the jursdiction of members, and if there is a legal historiy within a member-state/world, there maybe allowences for that member-state/world.

[Sarge]

I recall a DS9 episode, I think from season 1, that involved a man faking his own death by murdering a clone of himself. Odo arrested him because murdering a clone is still murder. I don't recall if there was anything else in the episode about the legality of clones, but it might be worth checking out.

[Sarge]

Hey, what's the idea of replying while I'm still typing, JALU? If you're gonna be like that, I'll just pack my stuff and head back to Iraq.

[JALU3]

Sorry SSGT if I got in my message a little sooner . . . what matters is that we come to the same point. But I think we're talking about the same episode here. Shouldn't have been any harmed done either way.

But if I remember correctly, there was discussion in that episode of the legality of cloning in the federation, if not only briefly.
However, if there wasn't, I would imagine that it would also fall under the same taboo about genetic manipulation . . .

[Tobian]

I think both genetic manipulation and cloning are both highly illegal and outlawed in the Federation. Of course, that shouldn't get in the way of having it happen in the story haha - making a cloaking device is also illegal, and that happened

I'm guessing they are doing it because they are wanting to do something highly illegal and with plausible dienighability (perhaps the clone can self destruct prior to uploading it's conciousness) removing evidence... This suggests either Starfleet intelligence (doing something without Starfleet authorisation!) or Section 31! Or it could just be an admiral who has a private agenda, and doesn't plan to get caught!

[Sea Tyger]

I recall a TNG episode (Season 2 or 3, with Pulaski as doctor) where the Enterprise encountered a colony where all of the denizens were clones (and they attempted to make clones out of Riker nad Pulaski).

[Tobian]

Up the long ladder and yes, that's the sort of thing which could be inspirational

[JALU3]

Careful we don't move into an ethical/moral debate on cloaning, unless you're willing to do it in the designated forum for it.

However, how can one have a story line with cloning being one of the central tenents, without bringing up those debate questions. Especially with the highly moralistic, our morals are supreme, way the Federation has appeared to evolve to be within the core worlds.

[Captain Otto]

There is no reason for cloning to be illegal. As a person I have the right on how to reproduct . Now the clone has full right of any other being would have. So downing my mind into his mind should be a crime . The clone has the right to lead it's own life .

I think a newly created clone is just a blank slate with no knowledge nor Skills.
Somewhat of an empty shell.
A "fresh" clone could have the body of an adult and still be a baby - lacking even basic abilities. So he is incapable of making his own decisions.
While the Federation may have no problem with cloning body parts for replacement like creating a new heart or missing limbs for a patient. Cloning a whole body without "downloading" a personality is pretty pointless. But then again you could create a simple "Goon" personality to download...

[Jem'hadar]

I recall a TNG episode (Season 2 or 3, with Pulaski as doctor) where the Enterprise encountered a colony where all of the denizens were clones (and they attempted to make clones out of Riker nad Pulaski).

I remember that episode. I don't remember if it was a Federation colony or a colony w/i Federation space, but I recall that it was some kind of lost or isolationist colony.

Putting aside any ethical/moral/legal issues, I remember there were medical concerns w/ too much cloning. Essentially, they were making copies of copies & eventually there was genetic degradation. That's why the colonists kidnapped Riker & Dr. Pulaski...to get a fresh infusion of DNA.

[Owen E Oulton]

There are two types of clones in SF.

One is a perfected version of current procedures, where donor DNA is implanted in a fertilised ovem and allowed to develop normally into a baby.

The other is what can be termed a "forced" clone, where the DNA is implanted in some form of matrix (which may be an ovum) and by superscientific means quickly developed into an adult. Some techniques simply rapidly age the foetus through to adulthood, and others build it up from the inside out. This type is the one usually depicted as getting a personality overlay.

Whatever the means, canon evidence (DS9) indicates that a completed clone, even a forced clone with no personality overlay, is still a legal person - to quote Constable Odo, killing your clone is still murder. The clones Riker and Pulaski killed were still far from viable, so it would likely be considered an abortion, legally speaking.

The effects of multiple cloning can be seen in current cloning techniques - the ends of each chromosome are "capped" by something called a telomere. As an organism ages, these wear down, and worn telomeres are passed down to the clone. This resulta in a clone that is genetically the same age as the donor, no matter how biologically young otherwise. Repeated cloning of clones (serial cloning) will eventually cause the process to break down as mentioned in the episode where Riker and Pulaski were cloned.

[tonyg]

According to some magazne articles and other stuff relased around the time of the TOS films (mid 80s), there was at least one member of the Federation that used extensivive cloneing and even cloned soldiers for the Federation. I'd have to check, but I think someone picked up on it for one of the fan produced PDF Trek suppmenets. Interestingly enough, this idea came out long before the idea that the Stormtroopers in Star Wars were clones was a given.

I don't believe that there is any on screen evidence of this, nor any evidence that the UFP clones replacement organs and limbs. It appears more like UFP medicine is capable of swtiching on an off DNA syquences allowing someone to regenerate/regrow organs combined with very advanced synthetic replacements.