View Poll Results: Elves in the 4th age

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  • Fade to the "Spririt World"

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  • get rid of the pointy ears

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  • Keep them but diminish the their power

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Thread: Elves of the 4th age

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Charlottesville, Virginia
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    Exclamation Elves of the 4th age

    An article I read is cited below to begin a discussion about eleves in the fourth age.Readers of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings often speculate about the Fate of the Elves of Middle-earth. Tolkien's published writings give somewhat contradictory hints as to what happened to the Elves of Middle-earth after the One Ring was destroyed at the end of the Third Age.

    It seems clear from Tolkien's published works that with the destruction of the One Ring, the power of the Three Rings of the Elves would also end and the Age of Men would begin. Elves that remained in Middle-earth were doomed to a slow decline until, in the words of Galadriel, they faded and became a "rustic folk of den and dell," and were greatly diminished from their ancient power and nobility. Tolkien does not explicitly state how long this "dwindling" process would take, but implies that while the power of the remaining Noldor would be immediately lessened, the "fading" of all Elvenkind was a phenomenon that would play out over hundreds and even thousands of years; until, in fact, our own times, when occasional glimpses of rustic Elves would fuel our folktales and fantasies.

    What presumably happened to the Elves of Middle-earth in the years and decades immediately following the War of the Ring is less clear, however.

    There are many references in The Lord of the Rings to the continued existence of Elves in Middle-earth during the early years of the Fourth Age. Elladan and Elrohir, the sons of Elrond, do not accompany their father when the White Ship bearing the Ring-bearer and the chief Noldorin leaders sails from the Grey Havens to Valinor; they are said to have remained in Rivendell for a time. Celeborn is also absent from the farewell scene at the Havens, and his words to Aragorn at their parting heavily imply that he does not expect to join Galadriel in Valinor at any point in the near future. Celeborn is said (in Appendix A) to have added most of southern Mirkwood to the realm of Lórien at the end of the Third Age, but elsewhere Tolkien wrote that Celeborn dwelled for a while in Rivendell before at last leaving Middle-earth for Valinor.

    This leads to my question of what is the fate of Elronds sons?
    Tolkien also wrote that Elves moved to Ithilien during King Elessar's reign, and assisted in the rebuilding of Gondor. It is also implied that Elves continued to dwell at the Grey Havens, at least for a certain period. Tolkien states that Círdan did not sail with Elrond, Galadriel, and the others at the end of The Lord of the Rings, and Sam Gamgee sailed from the Havens decades afterward, so it would seem that at least some Elves remained in Mithlond at that time. Círdan would supposedly leave on the last ship ever to leave the havens. Legolas also sailed to Valinor after Elessar's death, and although the reference to this in The Lord of the Rings states that it was Legolas himself that built the ship, it seems unlikely that any Wood-Elf from Mirkwood could have done so without the assistance of Círdan's folk, whom Tolkien elswhere said were the only Elves remaining at the end of the Third Age with the skill to build the great ships that sailed from Middle-earth to the Blessed Realm.

    Finally, the many descriptions of Lórien and the Woodland Realm in Mirkwood suggest that a significant population of Elves remained in Middle-earth for some time during the Fourth Age. In The Lord of the Rings, Caras Galadhon is called a "great city," and the impression is that the population of Silvan Elves that constituted the majority of Lórien's people numbered at least in the thousands. Descriptions of Thranduil's Woodland Realm in northern Mirkwood suggest an even larger population. Without the burning compulsion to return to Valinor that most of the Noldor and Sindar feel, it perhaps seems unlikely that the thousands of Silvan Elves remaining east of the Misty Mountains would suddenly choose to abandon Middle-earth at precisely the moment when all of Mirkwood was again open to them and the Shadow of Sauron was gone forever.

    On the other hand, Tolkien made many references to a sharply depopulated Elven world in Middle-earth that are difficult to reconcile with the above. Especially in "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" that is found in Appendix A, Tolkien depicts a Middle-earth where most Elves have already left. Aragorn speaks of the empty garden of Elrond in Rivendell, and Arwen tells him that whether she would repent of her choice or not, there was no longer any ship (or presumably any Elves to build a ship) to facilitate her journey to the Blessed Realm. Most strikingly, after Elessar's voluntary death, she flees to a Lórien that is depicted as wholly abandoned, and gives up her own spirit in its sad and silent confines. Apparently, the entire remnant of its population now resided in East Lórien (southern Mirkwood).

    NOTE: It is more likely that Arwen meant that because she had made her choice for a mortal life that the option to board a ship and go into the West was closed to her.

    As with so many elements of Tolkien's famous creation, these contradictions must remain just that: examples of the various ideas and themes that the author explored at different times, and fodder for discussion among his legions of fans.

    It is assumed those of the Quendi who never travelled to Aman, such as the Avari, succumbed to the change and mortality of the Middle Earth, their bodies being consumed by time, and simply faded away, not unlike the ring-wraiths, turning into purely spiritual creatures invisible to human eye.
    the roads goes ever on..... so buy a volvo!

    "don't tell the elf"-Gimili at the Hornburg LOTR TTT

    What about second breakfast?- Pippin, LOTR FOTR

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Feeling in a Necromancy mood and raising a few old threads

    I won't vote, as it depends on what kind of settings I am toying around with (as I haven't been RP-ing in LotR for a very long time). But it seems that the words "the last ship" are thrown around a lot in the books, or at least in the swedish translation. So I assume that there will be a lot of ships setting sails even in the 4th age.

    But basically, to me, the elves are diminishing because more die or leave than new elves are born. As the 4th age begins, the different communities of elves drops below a critical mass, so they have to become one community to function. So the Silvan, Quendi and Noldor becomes one group. This new group will also slowly diminish, but most likely have moved away out of sight from the humans long before they completely disappear from Middle earth.

    Now for the reason they do leave for the Undying lands, that varies more. But in one of the settings I am toying around with, that is engineered, and is part of a plot that has been in process since the 2nd age.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia
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    224
    I agree with you vision for the assimilation of the communities. still see a elf haven west of the misty mountains being more beleraindic compared to the Sylvan culture of Thranaduil's kingdom.
    the roads goes ever on..... so buy a volvo!

    "don't tell the elf"-Gimili at the Hornburg LOTR TTT

    What about second breakfast?- Pippin, LOTR FOTR

    "My precious"- my treo 700 phone/PDA

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