Reflections on the Mirror Universe

[Tricky]

So, I've been reading Glass Empires, and I've been thinking about the MU. We've only see it in cannon a handful of times (2 ENT episodes, one TOS, and 3-4 DS9, afaicr). And then there are all the novels, fan fics, game (both video and rpg) set-ups and comics. So, on one hand, there is alot of stuff, and on the other, only sketchy details and hints of a larger story.

So, at the risk of duplicating any previous thread, I was wondering what you all made of the MU and it's inhabitants. Was it 'born' bad, or was the moral decay created by it's inhabitants? If things happen so differently (like you get to be captain by killing the former captain and his supporters, or your civilization is conqured and it's people made slaves), how come the same people end up together? (other than conveince for the writers )

Do you use the MU in your game/writing? Which version do you use? What are your MU takes on things not seen yet (VOY, the Dominion, Movie era stuff, Andromedans, and of course the Borg); are they affected by the 'darker nature' of the MU, or are they similar to their 'real' counterparts?

Ok, that's enough questions to keep this going for now. Let the universal debate begin!

[The Tatterdemalion King]

It is the Torment of Lazarus.

[Owen E Oulton]

I use a Mirror Universe where the Empire never fell, and where the Klingons are separate from the Cardassian/Bajoran Alliance from DS9.

The Empire wears a uniform similar to that worn by the <i>Voyager</i> in <i>Living Witness</i>, but with the Imperial "sword-through-Earth" commbadge worn on the right breast.

So far, I've only used them in one brief adventure, but the repercussions from the encounter had a lingering effect in that even after it was known that the PCs had been "possessed" by their Mirror counterparts, the NPC crew took a long time to trust the PCs again.

[C5]

I've not used the mirror universe so far in my games (given that my last ST RPG session dates back a few years I wonder if I will ever use it).
However, here are my takes on the MU :

I consider there are two ways to interpret the MU. Either it's a parallel universe, or it's really a mirror universe, a timeline which is somehow tied to the "normal" universe, with the same people ending usually at the same places. Only the interaction with the other universe can alter this mirroring.

For the parallel universe solution, I consider that Humans are the most degenerated and that, the furthest you go from Earth, the closest to the normal universe you are. Hence, the Borg or the Dominion would be very similar to the ones we know.
This divergence could either be explained by drastic changes in Earth history, or simply by the result of WW3, which would have let people cold-hearted and vengeful, and keeping this way of thought as the centuries go by.
Another explanation would be that, not only Humans, but also most of the humanoid species are diverging from their usual version. It could be for instance that the original humanoid species we saw in TNG The Chase, which claimed to be the forebears of the major known humanoid species, were much darker than in the current universe.

The mirror universe explanation allows to have the same kind of coincidences as we had on the show. It could also lead to some interesting implications, being a sort of darker side of the universe, some concealed Id of the normal universe beings thoughts. It also leaves place to any inversion one might like - beneficient Borgs, decadent Romulans, homicidal Founders, and so on.
For this explanation to work, I also consider the DS9 MU to be actually the reflection of another Trek universe - one which diverged after first contact between the Cardassian and the Klingons led to an alliance between the two powers which eventually turned against the Federation and crushed it (possibly in this universe Kirk also met an earlier death, preventing the Federation and Klingon Empire to come closer).
This means there would be the other, "regular" MU around somewhere, with the Terran Empire and the PC's mirror counterparts ready to display their mischief or worse on the crew should any universe crossing take place

[black campbellq]

Our game universe has the mirror universe as a branch off of the Trek universe that was created by an unknown group/entity as an historical experiment control group. We were able to pry that tidbit of info out of the Q the crew was dealing with. According to him, the mirror universe has been careful tweaked throughout time to create the ultimate Darwinian situation as an experiment. There may be other universes like this, the purpose of which is to test "what if?" situation.

But that's us...

[Tricky]

I sort of reject the "everyone is bad" version of the MU, I perfer to look at as Terran's are bad (for some reason), and their horrible treatment of the peoples around them shaped their behavour. We see this sort of proven cannonly by the Halkans, who seem to be innocent pacifists in both universes, and the Cardassians, who seem to be the same SOB's in both universes.

As for where the Empire started, I have my own little theory: Tossing out the "Every President/World Leader was an Emperor" idea from the MU book, I prefer to think of the world as being much like our own, but a little more eviler than our own. Wars are a little more violent, and things get ugly alot more frequently than in our universe (or the Trek Uni). Then, the Eugenics Wars begin. Khan (much like the Cardies, he's the same megalomanical genius in any universe) pits the various nations against each other, taking advantage of their hostilities. Eventually, several nations unite to bring down the faction he had created. The one thing that this gives them is a sense of unity (that and human supremacy....they did defeat 'superhumans' after all): Those that served Khan and those that defeated him found that they actually acheived their goals better by working together. So, power blocks begin to form.

WWIII in the my version of the MU is also called the "War of Unification", as various factions war to bring other factions into their Sphere of Influence. After the conflict went Nuclear (and they discovered Aliens!), they set asside their differences to become the Terran Empire!

imho

[Jem'hadar]

I've not set an adventure or campaign in the Mirror Universe yet. I do have the MU supplement from Decipher which is fascinating & disturbing at the same time.

I don't think I'd GM a campaign where all PCs are MU characters. It might be interesting for side-adventure or two but eventually I think the PCs, if they roleplay correctly, would eventually assassinate each other or frame each other for some offense that gets them executed.

Cooperation in the MU only occurs so long as it's mutually beneficial. The moment one side no longer needs that cooperation or considers the other side to be liability, they will attempt to eliminate their partner(s). In fact, the only way to advance in rank (whether IS or Cardies or whatever) is to eliminate all potential rivals & curry favor w/ superiors who can grant you promotions/privileges. Of course, advance too far or too quickly & your superior/patron might consider you a liability to eliminate. If they fail, however, you might be in a position to eliminate them & take their job.

It's a crazy universe! It makes me think of what life must have been like in Nazi Germany, Stalin's USSR, Pol Pot's Cambodia or Mao's China, but even more extreme!

In fact, I don't see how any of the empires in the MU could ever be successful for a long period of time. Sure they're all ruthless & ruthless empires can be successful, but eventually they succumb to their own ruthlessness & destroy themselves. With such empires, it's often their inability to cooperate w/ each & work towards the common good which brings them down, as well as outside pressures.

According to MU theory, everyone in the MU acts out of his or her own selfish reasons. People are selfish in our universe too but we also do things b/c we like certain people, or feel loyalty beyond the bounds of coercion or necessity, or b/c we believe in promoting the common good. People in the MU care only about themselves, no one has any real friends, and everyone, even your closest associates, are potential threats to be eliminated or neutralized.

LIke I said, it's crazy.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I sort of reject the "everyone is bad" version of the MU

Not everyone is bad–the Ferengi were generally nice guys, even if they died really quickly.

I sort of assume the MU is some twisted reflection of the people–an entire universe of Jungian Shadows.

[First of Two]

All of the above.

No, really... there's room in the Multiverse for everything.

Here's how i figure it... borrowing from ideas in Heinlein's "Number of the Beast" and other, later works...

Alternate/Parallel universes exist on three Axes, corresponding to X, Y, and Z.

On the X-Axis, you have the "Alternate" universes. Infinite numbers of them. Each one spawned by a different quantum fluctuation, by a different decision point. These universes would divulge fairly rapidly from one another, but many of them would be similar in the short term, depending upon how far back the divergence point is. If it happened, say, before a particular person's conception, the odds of that person having a "counterpart" in that universe are vanishingly small.

On the Y-Axis, you have the "Parallel" universes. Also infinite in number. But these universes have (technobabble quantum resonance thingy) with the universe that spawned them, causing a bizarre effect, where while the histories diverge, the beings in them do not. This is the home of the Mirror Universe(s), and all other universes where our heroes have counterparts.

(To REALLY break your brain, consider that each Parallel universe might have Alternates, and each Alternate might have its own Parallels.)

Then there's the Z-Axis. Bob had fun with this, though it might just be wise to pretend it doesn't exist for your game purposes. Depending upon just how evil/fanboyish the GMN is. YMMV.

On the Z-Axis, exist all the universes of Myth Made Manifest. The Universes on the Z-Axis exist because someone believes in them. They're the "Crossover" universes. Narnia, Oz, Star Wars, Babylon 5, BSG, BTVS, Barsoom, The Lensmen, Earth 616... all of them are accessible somewhere on the Z-Axis.

Now, consider the implications of the sort of Cthulhu Mythos Myth Universe accessible from the "forever dark" kind of Mirror Universe. Go ahead. I'll plug my ears till your players' screaming stops.

[Owen E Oulton]

The concept of multiple MU's is alowed for - even demanded - by the TNG episode Parallels, which depicted hundreds of Enterprise-D's including at least one where the Borg won in Best of Both Worlds II. It's easy to come up with any number of alternate MU's to suit your own tastes.

I look at the Mirror Universe mostly from an "everyone's twisted" point of view. Good characters are mostly bad, bad characters are mostly worse, but a few non-heroic characters are heroic. It's not a true mirror, it's more like a fun-house mirror.

From a technobabble viewpoint, there's a kind of "reverse quantum entanglement" between universes where an event in one universe causes a similar event to occur in the other. This may a be natural phenomenon, or it may be "engineered" by a YAGLA (Yet Another God-Like Alien) or as a result of something like the Temporal Cold War...

[The Tatterdemalion King]

It's not a true mirror, it's more like a fun-house mirror.

I like that statement.

I mean, the MU was basically an excuse for the writers to cut loose and write the characters as fucked-up and bizarre as possible. Kira the sex kitten? Sure. Worf the crazy emperor? Huzzah! Vic Fontaine who's not a hologram? Why not!

[Tricky]

[i] Vic Fontaine who's not a hologram? Why not!

Actually, in a response I never got back to on the "AI of the MU"(bad poster, bad bad!), I had an reason for this: As the android '5th colum" started placing agents into both the Alliance and the Rebellion, they started using characters from literature, history, etc. as templates. So, the Vic killed on the station was either a 'replicant' design on a 'real life' Vic Fontaine or on Bobby Darrin himself!

Hey, he was killed by Bashir, maybe because they discovered he was an robot? jk

Actually, this X,Y,Z idea is almost born out by many comics and rpg games! So does that mean that there is a Cthulhu Mythos MU where the Great Old Ones are really GREAT? Where Min-go do helpful brain surgery, Deep ones help struggling fishing villages, and the big guy waits to return to the waking world to help man?

Ow, brain hurt now.

[Tricky]

Ok, here's a thought I had: The Dominion; would they come through the wormhole in the MU, or would either the Alliance or the Rebels go in after them?

As of the last MU DS9 ep, the rebels held the station. (hey, if Bajor is a member of the Alliance, why are they allowing the rebels to hold a station in orbit around them?) But with all the traffic between the universes, I'm sure someone has found out about the wormhole (unless there is no wormhole....maybe no Prophets?) so would the rebels go through, hoping to escape or find allies?

Or would the Alliance go through, looking for more worlds to conquer?

Wouldn't it be ironic, if the Alliance and the Rebels had to work together to stop a Dominion Invasion? (could that be a MU campaign I hear forming?)

[First of Two]

hey, if Bajor is a member of the Alliance, why are they allowing the rebels to hold a station in orbit around them?

Mexican standoff? The Allliance the resources to take the station, but the Rebels have the station weaponry to make any such victory unacceptably costly by bombarding Bajor's surface from orbit. So they're forced to leave each other alone.

Just a guess.

[Ineti]

Mexican standoff? The Allliance the resources to take the station, but the Rebels have the station weaponry to make any such victory unacceptably costly by bombarding Bajor's surface from orbit. So they're forced to leave each other alone.

Just a guess.

I think that was discussed in the story "Saturn's Children" in the Obsidian Alliances book.