All Good Things love

[SoloRio]

Hey guys,

I was just on my other thread and somebody mentioned hating 3 nacelle-d ships, and I was all like, "Whaaaaaaaat?" Because man, All Good Things is my favorite episode of that series of all time ever. When Enterprise saves their asses, I jumped outta my seat. (I think. In 94 I was 10. )

Anybody else on board with this ep? Anybody like another ep/series finale better?


-M

[Liquidator Queeg]

Picard to Riker: "Will, it's like the chicken and the egg ... the chicken and the egg!"

Sorry, I posted this quote in another thread recently, but it makes me laugh. So there's a little love for All Good Things for you. Welcome to the boards, by the way!

Oh, and yes, three-nacelled ships bite.

LQ

[Eric R.]

yep another fan here, going all the way back to the FJ's Federation class Dreadnaught!

[Cut]

The guy mentioning his dislike (being a better word then hate in retrospective) was me. I think the episode was great (TNG still is my favorite Trek show) but in Star Trek Starfleet ships are supposed two have two nacelles, not one, not three but two :-) Anyway I won't argue with people liking the design. Taste is a different thing for anybody, not worth fighting about BTW I still own a Decipher TNG CCG Premium Card of the Future's Enterprise and won't part with it for obvious reasons

[Tobian]

All good things was a good episode independently of whether the Enterprise had 2 or 3 nacelles?! 'Cool' ships do not always make an episode 'cool', and vice versa.

IMHO 3 nacelle ships suck, and they don't fit with Trek mythology for many technobabble reasons The ship in AGT was specifically designed to show it as 'different' than the other Enterprise, and we don't know it was actually a nacelle in the classical sense anyway. While some of the things they did to the old gal were cool, at the time, in hindsight I think they ruined the beautiful clean lines of the ship, and I think the external additions to the ship were a little silly given the amount of reconfigurable internal volume to the ship: they could have fit the extra guns and such inside the ship without changing the lines.

[Mazza]

"All Good Things" was great - it was as good as Generations should have been!

I have always liked three nacelle designs when they don't look like they don't fit on screen. I disagree that the established "Treknology" for want of a better word makes such ships impractical or improbable. I don't ever really recall on-screen discussion of why odd numbers of nacelles are impossible. I know that there has been a fair bit written about it, but this seems to be in the order of "fanon" explanations of the technology which were supposedly made necessary because of a remark apocryphally attributed to Gene Roddenberry about the Star Fleet Technical Manual. I don't really think that the technobabble explanations about even numbers of nacelles is any more authoritative than the FJ designs - it's all just fan extrapolation based on what we see on screen.

[Tobian]

Well bottom line - what is the ratio of 3 Vs 2 nacelle ships on screen? Without counting I think it's obvious Starfleet prefers them for whatever reason 'technobabble' or the fanon explanations aside. Any Fanon explanations are purely retcon, explaining what we see on screen, but they are just that, and 3 nacelle ships are almost never seen, so take what explanations you like, but believing that thousands of them are hiding off screen is just clutching at straws frankly :P Like them or loathe them, they are barely part of the universe Canon.

The D refit, while canon of a sort is also not really 'real' as it was all part of Q's fantasy - for one, given the subsequent timelines, that eventuality can't actualy happen now, as even if they did refit the enterprise and upgrade her, there can't be 2 ships of the same name, and.... Picards crew work on the Sovereign class one now So in the same vein, yes, the Dauntless (in voyager) is such a cool ship but it's not an actual real starfleet ship, it's a fake.

I know very well all about the bitter acrimony between Roddenberry and Fasa/Franz Joseph. It's not his finest moment, but I happen to agree with him if only on aesthetic grounds, not business/ethical ones

[SoloRio]

Okay, so:

Warp theory as I understand it is basically the bending of space in a way that pushes the ship forward on the space that is now stretching back to its actual dimensions. The nacelles are the tool that forces space to make this change, creating a warp field around the ship. In that case, I'm unsure what good any nacelles beyond 2 would do. There are obviously 4 nacelled starships (Stargazer, for example), so I see where this even number argument comes from, but as far as establishing a warp field I don't know what good in terms of speed an extra nacelle would do. Especially since I've never heard anything about the Stargazer being any faster than warp 9.

Just for clarity, we're all ignoring the Voyager warp ten rule, yes?

Also: Damn the cannons, All Good Things is coming true in my little universe! But like I say, I think I'm gonna have the Relativity bop in and futz with continuity. Maybe the All Good Things Relativity sends an officer back so that they don't cease to exist when Picard solves the timerift problem. Something along those lines, just more elegant.

-M

[tonyg]

I think the idea behind the AGT Enterprise is that since it takes place in the future, some advances in Warp Engine designs have mae a 3 nacelle ship possible. I don't see this as a problem, especially since the future from AGT isn't necessarily going to happen in TREK.

It makes sense too, since the "nacelles must be away from the body of the ship" rule has already bit the dust.

[Tobian]

Never confuse continuity with your game You can have 27 1/2 nacelled ships in your own game, just don't expect hardened trek fans to buy into it, outside of that

I would definatelly say a 2+ nacelle ship would be more robust: you're carrying spares! and so I guess for that reason it could be justified for long range scout type vessels.

With regards to warp 10 - it's quite possible to skim ever closer to '10' Voyager herself could reach warp 9.975 or something) actual '10' represents occupying all points in space all at once, which would likelly represent a head-job for your computer, let-alone you... they were lucky they arrived back in the same galaxy!

For an in depth look into 'transwarp' drive based technologies, I suggest you read http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymai...scitech.php?36 - where basically transwarp velocities are recalibrated as 'warp 14' etc. It's not strictly 'Canon' but it's well thought out and better than saying "ahead warp factor 9.99999999999992"

[spshu]

Was not the Enterprise in that episode traveling beyond Warp 10, so the third nacelle may have to do to the transwarp drive (slipstream, etc.).

I have less problems with a 3 nacelle than a ship designed such that nacelles are so far back that it looks like the front of the ship is outside the warp space field sphere. "Chief Engineer, where is 10 Forward?"

It makes sense too, since the "nacelles must be away from the body of the ship" rule has already bit the dust.

When the Defiant was issued to Cmdr. Sisko, there were a lot of issues with keeping it at Warp. So I just consider it not an optimnal design but do able.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I always thought it was a little fourth-wall 'tee hee' moment the writers were having.

[spyone]

First: I like All Good Things.

Second: I don't like ships with three nacelles. And not because Gene said there were no ships with an odd number (which he did), but because I think all three-nacelled ships come from the same misunderstanding of what makes the ships go.

The nacelles do not generate power, they turn the power into motion. Like more tires, more nacelles may make a ship look cooler, but they will not help it go, nor offer it more power for weapons and other systems.

So, I'm a bit at war with myself: I agree the three-nacelled Enterprise-D looked cool, but the part of me that knows that wouldn't be helpful thinks its dumb.

[SoloRio]

*SPECULATION ONLY!!!!*


The third warp nacelle, for sake of design ergonomics, was disguised as a standard nacelle. It is in FACT, some sort of new or adapted slipstream or transwarp drive, allowing the ship to move at warp 14, as according to the new warp chart.


*SPECULATION ONLY!!!!*



I dunno. I mean, I'd rather accept my favorite cannonical episode as opposed to what has been said out of series or what have you. I agree with the analogy of car tires tho. By that logic, however, why do you need two at all? I guess for a stable warp field two is necisary. Maybe three creates a field of a diffrent shape?


-M

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The nacelles do not generate power, they turn the power into motion. Like more tires, more nacelles may make a ship look cooler, but they will not help it go, nor offer it more power for weapons and other systems.

You never had a trike as a kid?