What does it mean to die?

[JALU3]

I know it's a tough question to ask, as once you are truly dead . . . there is no coming back and telling about it. Is it the beginning of a new part of existance, is it the conciousness dissipating to a nothingness void, is it a bookend to another story of life? Furthermore, it's a morbid thought, as it makes one think of their own mortality. From infants to the elderly, we all know it will occur . . . and as life passes along, how one thinks about it changes. The ignorance of teenage youth think that they are invincible, some elderly quietly accept it as an inevitable. Some continue to fight it until the bitter end, while some welcomingly embrace its, often bitter, solitude.

 

I bring this up as I have read an article regarding the character of Dr. Greene, a character from ER, after remember the episode where he passes away due to an inoperatable brain tumor. How they depict his last moments, and how they depict his last thoughts . . . it brings a different perspective to that which I have held. Although no longer young, I am definatly not old . . . so each moment is one that can be used to fight for something. And furthermore, with what limited medical background I have I know that with the right amount of effort, that most ailments can be fought against and people can return to a healthy life. But after a certain point, there is nothing that could be done, but make someone comfortable. Now take that in a context where a little more than 9 months ago my mother-in-law passed away.

9 Months. That's the amount of time it takes to bring a new life into the world. And during those last few days, before she went to the hospice, she had made believed that her daughter, my wife, her only child, was pregnant. I guess it made her feel better that she thought that her family would go on. And who was I, at that time, to tell her different. And now 9 months, no baby. Not that there was ever going to be one (anytime soon anyhow).

Through this characters death I was able to do something that I have not been able to do for my mother-in-law. Morn. Like the character my mother in law died due to cancer. And like my mother-in-law, in the end, the character took fate into his own hands, chose how their last days would be, and accepted what was to happen.
Although I fought it at first, I've come to realize that their deaths were far less traumatic then that found in an ICU. Looking back I don't know which I would rather have. However, what I do know is that my wife would give almost anything to have had more time with her.
My wife continues to morn her mothers loss. She says that she has come to terms with what that means, but she also says that she goes through bouts of depression when she thinks about it. In a way it has paralyzed her, as she has yet to move on from that period of her life. However, I cannot blame her. Some say that you never truly get over the fact that your parents died, you just accept it and continue.
In front of my Wife I have not been able to morn, as I have had to be the strong one. And in front of her, I don't think I will be able to until she to has gone through the process of moving onto the next stage of her life.

It's funny how she envys me, yet I envy her. She envys me that I still have my mom. I envy her, that in the time she did have, that they were so much closer. I haven't said it, but I think she knows. I mean, my mom confuses me with my younger brother, and doesn't even remember when my birthday is.

Well thank you listening. It has taken me roughly 3 hours to write this.

[Tobian]

Hmm well thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's a really tough subject to get into without it spinning into religion, especially for the religious members of our forum. I do feel for your loss, and I suspect it's something most people on the forum have had to deal with in some form, and in many cases quite a few times in their lifetime. It is so very sad.

Put frankly, death for me is a terrifying prospect because it is the unknown, it is the very personification of the unknown, and indeed is personified within culture as an abstract way of helping people deal with it's effects both externally and to them directly. I do envy those of religious faith who have something TOO believe in.

Ironically I was reading some source material from an RPG book the other day, not long after my uncle had died unexpectedly, and at great shock to the family, and it gave me some solace in it's resonance. Put briefly it was about a group of people who believed in the void, the absoluteness of oblivion and the emptiness of life> However rather than seeing that (as it classically is) as a negative they turned this round into a positive: Everything comes from nothing. From Absolutely nothing, springs matter, force, life, emotion, happiness, beauty and meaning, and when life and everything ends, it returns to absolute oblivion again. So in a way this stuff of absolute nothing is a powerful and wonderful thing to have created everything. It's not so much a religious belief as a truism: Despite Sciences basic claim that nothing is truly created or destroyed, nonetheless everything comes from absolutely nothing, so maybe it's not such a bad place to return too

I'm afraid however if I had answers, I would certainly share, as if I could help anyone with the pain, I know they are feeling, I would, but I don't, so I can't, except to say the self obvious truism that if you spend all your life thinking about your life, you aren't really living it, you're just watching yourself go through the motions... so try not to think about it too much.. Giving advice to other people is SO easy,giving it to yourself is amazingly hard!

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Despite Sciences basic claim that nothing is truly created or destroyed, nonetheless everything comes from absolutely nothing, so maybe it's not such a bad place to return too

No-thing is still a thing.

[Tobian]

Is it? only in the sense of the universe. Sure in an absolute sense within the universe then 0 is actually in a quantum flux of existence and non existence, so there is never truly 'nothing' in the universe... and outside it is? NOTHING, kind of different But I find it an intriguing question nonetheless

[First of Two]

To be honest, I have absolutely no idea what it means to die. I ususally suspect anyone claiming to know what happens after I die to be after my wallet. They always seem to want money for it.

I can't say I'm afraid to die, in that because my curious nature, some small part of me is actually looking forward to knowing. Peter Pan said it best, "to die... would be a wonderful adventure."

That said, all of the rest of me knows that there are still an infinite number of things to do in THIS world, and it's necessary to stave off that knowledge as long as I can if I'm going to learn and do as much of those other things as possible. I don't fear death, but I'll sure as hell fight it. I've got no intention of dying before the last possible second.

Having given it some thought a long time ago, I hit upon several possible scenarios:

1. There is no afterlife. POOF. (Adventure factor: Disappointing, but seems likely. I wonder what the effects leading up to oblivion are like. That could be an adventure?)

2. There is an afterlife, and it is just. We get what we deserve. (Liveable, I think. Though most variations of the Afterlife I've heard of leave me cold. Still, if I'm right, that could leave some adventure possibilities open.)

3. There is an afterlife, and it is unjust. (Adventure factor: Where do I sign up for the Rebellion? -- Or on the other hand, maybe 'WTF am I doing in Paradise?')

4. Reincarnation. (Adventure. I hope I come back as a pampered housecat.)

5. There is an afterlife, and it is unlike anything we have thought of. (ADVENTURE. All-caps.)

But honesltly I have no idea. Personally, I want to wake up and find out that the afterlife is an infinitely programmable holodeck and replicator. I can live with that.

[LUGTrekGM]

What does it mean to die?

Nothing. Live now. Worry about later when it happens.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Is it? only in the sense of the universe. Sure in an absolute sense within the universe then 0 is actually in a quantum flux of existence and non existence, so there is never truly 'nothing' in the universe... and outside it is? NOTHING, kind of different But I find it an intriguing question nonetheless

You're still talking about things in that they have no-thingness in relation to thingness.

–––

Do you know what it means to live?

[Sarge]

As one of the believers on this board, I can tell you that I might not know EXACTLY what's going to happen when I die. But I know beyond a doubt that God loves me and is going to take care of me better than I can possibly imagine.

"Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; He will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." -Revelations 7:17

[Tobian]

TMK, I'm doing it right now, so err yes, I think so

and yes I am fully aware of the ambiguity of the statement, that's why I like it, confusing people is the meaning of life

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Got quite a good dosage of thinking about death back when I was working as a janitor at a morgue a long time ago. Made me go over quite a lot of thoughts that I guess most won't go over until someone close has died.

My thoughts on it. well, I could more or less just copy and past what First of Two wrote.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

That sounds like a cool job...

[C5]

I used to say that death was a mystery solved by billions of people individually but none of those managed to make the answer known to others...

Now I'm trying to convince myself that death means the end of all, period. The connections in the brain cease and all thought stop, and nothing remains of us but a corpse. I said I'm trying to convince myself so because no matter what, I find this hard to conceive, if only because "just nothing" is a concept we have difficulty with (like imagining what was before the Big Bang, assuming the theory is correct, or "outside" the universe). I know a tiny part of me will keep hoping to wake up someplace else, the same tiny part that doesn't want to accept that events happen completely randomly and not because some superior power or mechanic ruled so (did you guess I am an atheist ?)

Anyway, based on that theory, I try to make the most of my life and enjoy as much from people as I can, because I don't think there will be any second chance afterward. I consider that dead people only live in the memories of the living, so I'm just hoping I'll be able to leave as many good memories as I can. And in the meantime, I try to fill my life as much as I can, because I consider it is the only one I will ever have.

But so far I've never known the loss of someone very close. Maybe all that will change, but, as you can guess, I do hope this doesn't happen soon.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I used to say that death was a mystery solved by billions of people individually but none of those managed to make the answer known to others...

Nearly everyone you will ever talk to has a ghost story or something similar. Just because it violates the categories of what is materially quantifiable doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It just doesn't fit.

But so far I've never known the loss of someone very close. Maybe all that will change, but, as you can guess, I do hope this doesn't happen soon.

Touching the dead changes you.

[C5]

Nearly everyone you will ever talk to has a ghost story or something similar. Just because it violates the categories of what is materially quantifiable doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

So far I failed to encounter a ghost story that lacked an explanation that did not have anything to do with ghosts. The human mind is something very complex and powerful, and rather good at seeing what it wants to believe into. For that reason, I'm twice as careful when dealing with evidences of something I would really love to be true.
I'm not saying that ghosts don't and will never exist, just that, as long as ghost stories can be explained by delusions, I won't consider them otherwise. I'm still ready to change my mind, as I am with anything spiritual.

Touching the dead changes you.

I'm not doubting it for a second. I just hope it will not happen to me before some time. Because, for me, the hardest part of death is for those who stay and remember.

[Tricky]

All this talk about the end makes me realize that I really don't know what happens when you die...or at least what will happen when I die.

Growing up, I went to Sunday school...so it was all "Heaven to be with Jesus". But since then, I've been exposed to alternate veiwpoints. Will I just go out like a lightbulb; will i pass on only to be returned to the mortal coil in a new form; will I go to the pearly gates....or perdition's flames? Or is it something else...?

Honestly, I don't know what I believe. And with all the things going on in my life right now (mom's 3rd bypass surgery and the birth of my beautiful neice), you'd think that I would be more intune with 'the great mystery'.

But I'm not. LIfe's background noise keeps me from contemplating my ultimate fate.