^^ Operations Problem ^^

[Dr_Sage]

Its just me or it seems the Ops Officer was just an excuse for keeping Data apart from Spock?

I have been reviewing the positions of "Chief of Operations" and I wander:

* Its just a bridge position? (like communications);
* Its in fact a Department, having transporters, Hangars and other general services under him?

I personaly don´t like the way ST:TNG treated the science officers. I believe Rodenberry wanted to keep Data apart from Spock and then created a new bridge position, but if we evaluate Data dramatic role trought the series: he was the science officer.

* All scientific work and general research/investigation was his responsability.
* There was never a simgle clue that other operation personel were under his direct responsability (like OBrien´s work for example).
* Even OBrien work on board Defiant was cleary the Chief Enginieer, no matter whats they called him.
* Harry Kim got close, but he acted dramaticaly as a Sciences Officer for a long time.
* I remmember from ST:TNG Lower Decks, that the Ops position was being treated just like any other activity on the bridge and not like a department. I recall the young Ensign saying that she had to: recalibrate sensors,"degas" the main deflector and use the internal sensors to find someone´s pet - wtf!.

What your opinions on this matter?

[LUGTrekGM]

I come from the old FASA school, where ops is a dept.

Except in TNG it seems to be sensors with some sciences.

But my series is movie era, and so we use the FASA / TOS Department system.

[JALU3]

I refer you to Military Staff positions, Operations Officer (S-3). They usually have a suit or position very close to the unit CO, as they take his Command and/or OPORD and make sure that it's deciminated to the correct sub-units to make sure that it is carried out.

[Dr_Sage]

Dont you guys feel that in the ST Universe these positions have been taken?

"The operations office plans and coordinates operations, and all things necessary to enable the formation to operate and accomplish its mission. In most units, the operations office is the largest of the staff sections and considered the most important. All aspects of sustaining the unit's operations, planning future operations, and additionally planning and executing all unit training, fall under the responsibility of operations."

Most of these are done by: the command staff (namely the first officer), the engineering department and security.

We haven´t seem any Ops Officer do nothing like that on screen....

[JALU3]

You Get it all wrong . . . you have all these departments . . . with all these task . . . but even in the Star Trek world . . . with the newest Starfleet Starship . . . you still have limited resources to complete all these task.

Say someone needs to train using the Holodeck . . . well someone has to coordinate which department gets to use it . . . say someone has to use the long-range sensors for an astrology project . . . but astro navigation also needs it . . . those type of things . . .
Furthmore, as with any other major commands which have several semi-independent sub-units . . . someone has to coordinate how they are tasked to complete certain missions. The Medical Division needs to know in advance that the Security Division will be conducting opposed boarding operations training at X and will need two corpsman just in case.
Although the XO is the First Officer, second in command . . . and in charge of Administrative/personnel functions . . . and may have his hand in on Operations as well . . . that doesn't mean that there aren't people dedicated to that specific function.

There is a reason to the madness . . . try coordinating 1,000 plus crew members aboard one ship . . . it takes a department to do that.

[spshu]

The Operation Manager is the Operations department bridge position and some Chief Operations Officer man that station in the case of Data for 1st shift. I see each of the color being of a (super-)department and thus another mention group is a division like security, engineering, etc. Data was mention as being the Chief Science Officer after a few years in addition to being the Second Officer and Chief Operation Officer (COO). I think a captain has the choice in how he organizes a ship in having a chief operation officer or not, like in the case of Voyager (or the Strategic Operations Officer, Worf's position on DS9). It is possible that Tuvok was chief operation officer in addition to being Chief Security Officer and Second Officer. With Tuvok manning the security station, someone else is needed to man the operation station. A larger ship would most likely require to have one.

I think that Engineering and Security division were seen as major division. Thus the chief division officer were seen as senior officers and were most likely left alone by a COO unless there was a vacancy in those divisions chief officer positions or those positions were joined together like O'Brien on DS9
.
I think also that Data operated (either via programming or learned) under a cooperative approach. So he never pull rank unless it was necessary.

Operations Department's Divisions

• Engineering
• Security
• Communication
• Environmental
• Shuttlebay & Shuttle Operations
• Transporters

[Dr_Sage]

OK, we are talking about a TV show, with no rpg rules attached to it. But honestly: Data not the chief of anyone.

[JALU3]

OK . . . as stated before . . . the Chief Operations Officer is the head of the coordinating sub unit of several other sub units of a larger command. In this case the larger command is the ship itself. Within the ship you have several divisions: Flight Control, Medical, Astrology, Earth Sciences, Shuttle & Small Vessel Operations, Engineering, etc. (not all listed, and some listed very minor listed) . . . each of these divisions carry out a set of specific duties, and most require 24 hour mannings . . . with several individuals from that division assigned per shift to meet the needs of the ship. Now because certain operations require coordination of these divisions for the ship to operate properly and to carry out certain task and missions . . . there is an Operations Section to coordinate all these actions. Although the Commanding Officer may give a simple order such as Engage Warp . . . there is a lot that you don't see onscreen that must occur for that to happen, and for it to happen without a problem. I.E. Coordinating maintanance schedules so everything works when they need it to, making sure the direction requested is issue free, whether there is sufficient energy to carry out the order, to inform divisions that maybe effected by the action (such as on a real ship where certain operations such as waste disposal has to be certailed when the ship is moving) . . . all this is scheduled by Operations. They are the those who make sure orders are carried out . . . and not just a command that goes ignored.

If you've ever seen a real Operations Section working, there is usually an officer, and several senior enlisted personnel with many schedules on the wall, list of units and their points of contacts, their current capability ratings, maps, and other such things. They are the lubricant of the big machine one calls a major command.

As with all commands, depending on who leads them, will effect how they operate.

As stated by Spshu . . . Data's style of command in that position is very hands off to the major divisions underneath him . . . and it need not be very hands on, as each of them should have a Division Officer, that commands that division, as well as several chiefs. There is a reason why you see all those Ensigns around.

[Dr_Sage]

In game terms, wouldn´t be reasonable to assign these responsabilities to the Chief Enginieer?

I mean, in most gaming systens (cinematicaly speaking), the control/repair/enchance systens actions are already their jobs.

And lets face it: Harry Kim was a newbie. Maybe a genius, but still a newbie, with no command skills. How could be be commanding a department with so many people, including some liutenants?

Seems to me that he was only the "Ops Bridge Officer", with no one under him... (maybe he was just a sciences officer using the wrong color hehehehehe).

[JALU3]

Those Departments under Operations are semi-independent bodies, and as such have their own DivOf (Division Officer) . . . its just that Operations coordinates their actions. Therefore, they can be a seen as an extension of the CO & XO, assisting them in coordinating the operations of the command.

In Army Organization, the Organization Section is a sub-unit of the HHC (Headquarters) and staffed with an officer and several senior NCOs.

Therefore, it doesn't mean that Operations carries out any of the duties assigned to be done. Rather they take orders and task, and disseminate them to the appropriate Departments and oversees that the missions and tasks are completed for the CO.

Thus, one can be a junior officer, and still be in Operations. This is similar to other Headquarters positions which may have control over sub-units of a MACOM (Major Command), in this case a ship. For instance. One can be a 1LT and be incharge of the Finance Section under the Administration Platoon of HHC . . . and be responsible for the pay of a Battalion (Bn), commanded by a LTC, and with Sub-units commanded by CPTs and other 1LTs.