[CODA] Star Trek RPG 2nd Edition (done by us :))

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Yep a bit like True 20 does it - you just have the modifier as a stat. Plus in Coda the way it was done was a bit.. odd, every other number was +1, except the middle 3, for 0

Yeah, I don't really understand why CODA (or 3E, really) has the two sets of numbers.

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Trademarks, you have to defend them or you will loose them. So I would strongly recommend to not have "Star Trek" or "Coda" in the name. If you look at all the examples mentioned above, how many of those have used a trademarked name?

Copyrights, you don't have to defend them to keep them. If you have a change of hearth a few years down the road, the only thing you would have lost when sending in the lawyers are how much damages you can claim.

Of everything mentioned above, I would say that nothing of it is in direct competition of "the real product." A few fan made episodes will not compete with a full series. Most of the other stuff plays a supportive role. But considering how small the RPG market is, having a complete fan made Star trek RPG on the market could easily be considered to hamper the possibility to get a new company to pick up the license.

Thats why I recommend dividing it up to at least 2 different books. one rulebook containing no specific Trek information (this could be an existing system, or a custom made one) and a Trek supplement to the first one.

On the other hand, it is always possible to have "be unsuccessful" as a design constraint.

Then I have my own opinions when it comes to trying to reach a consensus. But who knows, as this is currently discussed on the Coda part of the forums, there might be a slight chance. Then there are also the option of involving the people who don't care about Coda. It would increase the amount of conflicting opinions and harder to reach a consensus. But might also result in two separate projects that can share ideas and resources.

And of course, I am not a lawyer, nor have ever studied to become one

[Slortar]

I for one don't like the "doubled wound points" thing. In ICON fights were fast a vicious. In CODA it was more like chipping away at hit points. Phasers excepted.

One idea that I'd like to see is the elimination of wound points for a wounding system. For instance maybe give each character a wound threshold rating, and maybe the character looses an additional wound level per 3 points the damage exceeds the threshold.

I'm intrigued by the idea of doing a wound state based system, kinda like how Mutants & Masterminds does it.

Basically with M&M, an attack has a damage rating and you have to make a Toughness saving throw. You make the save, you don't take any damage at all. You make the save by only a little or fail it by a little, you get a Bruise (which gives you a -1 to further saves until you have a chance to rest up a bit). You fail the save by a lot, you get further wound states, like "incapacitated" or "crippled" (memory's a bit fuzzy on specifics here because I don't have the book in front of me).

Each state has specific effects, like -1 to further damage saves or "slowly passing out due to extreme pain", or stuns you for the next round. They also stack, so if you get hammered on a lot, you'll develop an array of bruises and be much more likely to be seriously injured. It's pretty neat and plays very fast, with lilttle book keeping.

When you think about it, it seems to model damage in Trek a lot better (and a lot of other visually-based mediums). You don't really just hammer away at each other--you accumulate bruises and injuries until you either pass out or die...but it's not at any single arbitrary threshold, like it is in an HP-based system. It still leaves things open for phaser-like instakills if you need them, but does a good job of handling brawling-type damage. And face it, there's a TON of brawling in Trek...

Also, I think it allows for better story-telling possibilities because you can just glance at your sheet and instantly see that you have 4 bruises, a crippling blow (to your leg, maybe) and you're stunned. You can then have the medic treat your leg, give you the Trek-equivalent of smelling salts and you're good to go.

At this point, however, you're not really doing CODA any more, so it might be outside the bounds of this thread.

[RaconteurX]

The wound system I was working on, back when I was actively playing CODA Trek, kept the existing wound levels but eliminated the Health-based hit points. Health became the point at which accumulated wound penalties would decisively overwhelm a character and render him or her unconscious. So with a Health of 10, any combination of wounds with penalties totaling -10 or higher would incapacitate. I also used individual checks to determine if a particular wound overwhelmed the character temporarily. Heavily inspired by James Bond 007, Forgotten Futures and HarnMaster...

[tonyg]

One thing I'd like to see change, and this is purely on a personal level, is having to have two numbers to denote attributes. Having both ability scores AND modifiers just seems a bit redundant to me.

Yeah, me too. There is really only a couple of places where the game uses the stat and that could be replaced. For example wound levels could be 7 plus twice VIT plus STR.

SO do we want to keep the 2d6 roll and take the modfier, or do something like 1D6-1D6?

One thing that could be neat would be setting att the attributes to 0/Species Base, and then give the players some extra picks, maybe an advacement or two for buting up stats.

A baseline zero apporach also simpl;ified NPC stats. We only need to track what is differernt.



-I'd also suggest getting rid of reactions and just using the stats. We could even keep the choice of Stat thing. So someone who is poisoned could roll VIT or STR as desired.

[tonyg]

The wound system I was working on, back when I was actively playing CODA Trek, kept the existing wound levels but eliminated the Health-based hit points. Health became the point at which accumulated wound penalties would decisively overwhelm a character and render him or her unconscious. So with a Health of 10, any combination of wounds with penalties totaling -10 or higher would incapacitate. I also used individual checks to determine if a particular wound overwhelmed the character temporarily. Heavily inspired by James Bond 007, Forgotten Futures and HarnMaster...

Sounds similar to what is used in EABA. In EABA a character can take damage equal to HLH+STR. If we are going to go with base 0 stats we'd probably need to use soemthing like 7+2xVIT+STR to get the same kind of result.

Another neat rule EABA had was that wound penalties also acted as armor against attacks. THe idea, and quite sound, was that if you are badbly banged up, a minor nick isn't going to faze you. It made it a bit tougher to kill someone with a knife, although easy to mess them up to the point of being helpless. Things like aimed shots could get around this too.

[TFVanguard]

Heh, the thread speaks of "Okay, let's use CODA, but let's rewrite absolutely everything about the system!" ... kind of funny considering we don't even have a base line to look at, much less figure out what modifications would be both sensible and not destructive to the rest of the system.

On that note, I've started a CODA SRD compilation on my own. I know there's one out there, but I had a lot of trouble with it. (Badly edited, a lot of thrown in data while skipping some very basics, etc). It's not presentable YET, but as it starts moving forward I'll house it at www.pixelsagas.com/coda

[tonyg]

Heh, the thread speaks of "Okay, let's use CODA, but let's rewrite absolutely everything about the system!" ... kind of funny considering we don't even have a base line to look at, much less figure out what modifications would be both sensible and not destructive to the rest of the system.

On that note, I've started a CODA SRD compilation on my own. I know there's one out there, but I had a lot of trouble with it. (Badly edited, a lot of thrown in data while skipping some very basics, etc). It's not presentable YET, but as it starts moving forward I'll house it at www.pixelsagas.com/coda

Well, if we want to use everything in CODA, we'd be better off just passing around the PDF. Legally its the same boat, and the work is already been done.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Well, if we want to use everything in CODA, we'd be better off just passing around the PDF. Legally its the same boat, and the work is already been done.

You know, I'm not sure if I've actually seen any pirated copies of CODAtrek...

[tonyg]

You know, I'm not sure if I've actually seen any pirated copies of CODAtrek...

Well, I've seen them for LUGTrek. So I suspect CODA trek ones are out there. It only takes a llittle time and effort to scan a book and turn it into a pdf. Or, with progams like CDisplay, just using a zip file.

I'll do a little surfing. If people want to go that route, and since that is really what people are doing anyway, I syuspect I can find something.

After all, we have the books already so what is the reason for redoing the system?

As for fixes, alternations, we've done those before too.

[C5]

If I may... the way things are going now seems to me that in a few weeks there will be as many CODA 2.0 (or however we decide to call it) as there are members on this board

So I would like, before starting, to decide a bit more firmly :
- what we want to change
- why we want to change it
- how will we change it
in very broad terms, at this point (e.g. the combat system, the number of attributes, etc).

Then we could start workgroups (possibly in alternate parts of the forum) in different threads on each subject.

The important thing here is to decide once and for all what needs to be changed, and for what reasons. Of course, that would mean that some of us may not like the direction CODA 2.0 is taking, but I feel designing a system able to please any player is almost as easier as devising a Star Trek series able to please any fan...

And my personal suggestion would actually be to try making CODA closer to what we seen on screen.
For instance, I think starship combat is as close to how it happens in the series as it can be, but unarmed combat lacks a few things (if I remember correctly, it is impossible to knock someone out in a fistfight without a nerve pinch or pummeling the opponent to death).

Just my 2 eurocents.

[tonyg]

If I may... the way things are going now seems to me that in a few weeks there will be as many CODA 2.0 (or however we decide to call it) as there are members on this board

So I would like, before starting, to decide a bit more firmly :
- what we want to change
- why we want to change it
- how will we change it
in very broad terms, at this point (e.g. the combat system, the number of attributes, etc).

Then we could start workgroups (possibly in alternate parts of the forum) in different threads on each subject.

The important thing here is to decide once and for all what needs to be changed, and for what reasons. Of course, that would mean that some of us may not like the direction CODA 2.0 is taking, but I feel designing a system able to please any player is almost as easier as devising a Star Trek series able to please any fan...


And my personal suggestion would actually be to try making CODA closer to what we seen on screen.

I am all up for that direction. If it is the one that the majority wish to take.

For instance, I think starship combat is as close to how it happens in the series as it can be, but unarmed combat lacks a few things (if I remember correctly, it is impossible to knock someone out in a fistfight without a nerve pinch or pummeling the opponent to death).Just my 2 eurocents.

I bet to differernt. Starship combat isn't very close to onscreen at all. In CODA ships can take a lot more punishement that their on-screen counterparts. On screen a couple of hits tends to disable a ship and a ship cuaght with shields down takes serious damage from a hit. In CODA, even shuttlecraft can take several volleys.

I think it is safer to say that CODA mirrors Voyager space combat and the latter films where everyone has Janeway's disease (the inability to return fire until your shields are gone).

In TOS, the early films, up through DS9, the hits are a bit more punishing. At least if you get past the shields.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

A quick run through Torrentscan hasn't found any pirate copies of the core books. The SPACEDOCK material seems popular, though.

As for changes:

The core purpose of the project should be understood. This isn't a second edition; this is a 'soft pirate.' We're looking to create an alternative to the legally unavailable core rulebooks, one which would not invalidate the previous material we may already own. Altering the system in significant mechanical ways doesn't serve the purpose. If you want to introduce sweeping non-nomenclature changes that would require conversion of statblocks and rules throughout the game (such as eliminating Reactions, or changing ship combat, or introducing a new wound system), then you're better off just creating a Trek sourcebook for another system–which you can probably find already.

[tonyg]

A quick run through Torrentscan hasn't found any pirate copies of the core books. The SPACEDOCK material seems popular, though.

As for changes:

The core purpose of the project should be understood. This isn't a second edition; this is a 'soft pirate.' We're looking to create an alternative to the legally unavailable core rulebooks, one which would not invalidate the previous material we may already own. Altering the system in significant mechanical ways doesn't serve the purpose. If you want to introduce sweeping non-nomenclature changes that would require conversion of statblocks and rules throughout the game (such as eliminating Reactions, or changing ship combat, or introducing a new wound system), then you're better off just porting to another system–which you can probably find already.

Found SOM as a torrent file. One down...

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I bet to differernt. Starship combat isn't very close to onscreen at all. In CODA ships can take a lot more punishement that their on-screen counterparts. On screen a couple of hits tends to disable a ship and a ship cuaght with shields down takes serious damage from a hit.

In Generations, the Enterprise-D is destroyed by a single torpedo. In TUC and TWOK, the Enterprise/A takes round after round of shots with shields down and keeps going, some of them as precisely-aimed as the torpedo in Generations. In "Sacrifice of Angels," two Miranda-class ships flanking the Defiant are torn to pieces while the Defiant takes hit after hit and keeps chugging along.

On screen, the combat follows the dictates of the screenwriting. Someone running an RPG, at least this style of RPG, while engaged in 'replicating the experience,' has to make decisions about how space combat functions that the screenwriters never really need to consider, i.e. 'how powerful is the Enterprise, really.'?

So the real issue here is whether you agree with the game's decision about whether the Enterprise is that tough. I am alright with it, but I haven't actually played in a couple years.