[CODA] Star Trek RPG 2nd Edition (done by us :))

[tonyg]

In Generations, the Enterprise-D is destroyed by a single torpedo. In TUC and TWOK, the Enterprise/A takes round after round of shots with shields down and keeps going, some of them as precisely-aimed as the torpedo in Generations. In "Sacrifice of Angels," two Miranda-class ships flanking the Defiant are torn to pieces while the Defiant takes hit after hit and keeps chugging along.

On screen, the combat follows the dictates of the screenwriting. Someone running an RPG, at least this style of RPG, while engaged in 'replicating the experience,' has to make decisions about how space combat functions that the screenwriters never really need to consider, i.e. 'how powerful is the Enterprise, really.'?

So the real issue here is whether you agree with the game's decision about whether the Enterprise is that tough. I am alright with it, but I haven't actually played in a couple years.

I TUC the Entperise takes a few torps. In TWOK not nearly as many. HArdly the round after round.

Generally on screen, the TOS Entperiese would take out an enemy ship in one or two shots. THis general trend hellp true for most of the series.

Yeah, things do change a bit depending on the writers. nd in the real world things are not as cut and dired as marking off hit/hull points.

But on the series there are cases where a single hit or volley criples or destroys a ship. That doesn't happen with CODA.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I TUC the Entperise takes a few torps. In TWOK not nearly as many. HArdly the round after round.

Rewatch the scene where Khan blows the shit out of the Engineering section. It's not one shot...

Yeah, things do change a bit depending on the writers.

They change depending on what the writer wants to happen. Would RDM have blown up Voyager if he was in charge of the show? I doubt it. Galactica, for all its grit and darkness, ain't blowed up yet. The Defiant was destroyed to give weight to the threat of the Breen. Simulating that part is a job for the Narrator's outline, not a ruleset. Unless you want to quantify it as "+ahundred damage for being doomed."

But on the series there are cases where a single hit or volley criples or destroys a ship. That doesn't happen with CODA.

As a Narrator, you've never decided that a shot was more destructive than the dice say? Results can be changed either way, but for a ship to be in danger of total obliteration every round can be frustrating, as any oWoD players can tell you. Short combats can also be a bit of a letdown, and may not give an opportunity for everyone to act. Instead, the designers erred on the side of resilience (or low-powered weapons) to avoid ships blowing up uplanned left and right.

[tonyg]

Rewatch the scene where Khan blows the shit out of the Engineering section. It's not one shot...

Depends. TWOK has those funky gatling phasers. Someone saiys fire and the emitter machinguns out a nuch of shots.

Also those were pinpoint strikes, so the effect was excetly what was desired.


[QUOTE=The Tatterdemalion King;167340]
They change depending on what the writer wants to happen. Would RDM have blown up Voyager if he was in charge of the show? I doubt it. Galactica, for all its grit and darkness, ain't blowed up yet. The Defiant was destroyed to give weight to the threat of the Breen. Simulating that part is a job for the Narrator's outline, not a ruleset. Unless you want to quantify it as "+ahundred damage for being doomed."
[QUOTE=The Tatterdemalion King;167340]

But the base ships do blow up fast. If anything the game should be lethal with Coiuurage points being used th=o save the PCs.

As a Narrator, you've never decided that a shot was more destructive than the dice say? Results can be changed either way, but for a ship to be in danger of total obliteration every round can be frustrating, as any oWoD players can tell you. Short combats can also be a bit of a letdown, and may not give an opportunity for everyone to act. Instead, the designers erred on the side of resilience (or low-powered weapons) to avoid ships blowing up uplanned left and right.

No. Nor would I want to game with one that did. Its unfair. It's also no fun to play. If everything is going to happen by GM fiat the players might as well stay home. I've been in campaigns where GMS run like that. Id on't want to be dragged around by the nose or have things go wrong on a whim.

Long combat are the letdown. Tactics don't mean anythiung anymore, since you got plenty of points to loose. Look at D&D. Get a lot of hit points, get bored.

The game designers erred.

If every excplosion is planned, then it isn't a RPG it's just someone telling a story. If I wanted that I'd watch TV or read a book. Or just like the guy tell me his story. I wouldn waste time trying to actually do something.

A RPG should try to mirror the setting on which is is based. THe high hit point system used in CODA doesn't. Not for ships and not for characters.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

But the base ships do blow up fast. If anything the game should be lethal with Coiuurage points being used th=o save the PCs.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting the system be based around, then–a spending system to avoid failure? That seems like a fairly radical departure from CODA as it stands.

No. Nor would I want to game with one that did. Its unfair. It's also no fun to play. If everything is going to happen by GM fiat the players might as well stay home. I've been in campaigns where GMS run like that. Id on't want to be dragged around by the nose or have things go wrong on a whim.

Long combat are the letdown. Tactics don't mean anythiung anymore, since you got plenty of points to loose. Look at D&D. Get a lot of hit points, get bored.

If every excplosion is planned, then it isn't a RPG it's just someone telling a story.

If I wanted that I'd watch TV or read a book. Or just like the guy tell me his story. I wouldn waste time trying to actually do something.

A lack of rules doesn't equal not gaming–unless your GM is an ass. Everything in the game happens through consensus acceptance of GM fiat already, the rules just give the GM a framework to decide things with.

A RPG should try to mirror the setting on which is is based. THe high hit point system used in CODA doesn't. Not for ships and not for characters.

Dude, the damage ratings for phasers just say 'Kill.' Even a vorpal sword doesn't do that.

The game designers erred.

Given your problems with the system, do you actually use it?

[C5]

Another thing... it could be also useful to have a few people in charge of the project, possibly with moderator powers, to prevent debates from going out of control and set the purpose of a discussion.
And, later on, to centralize the work, and being able to rule when a case is closed.

Pure democracy is good, but in my experience when it involves more than two people it turns to anarchy

[Tobian]

Yes, when i said 'now the wailing and gnashing of teeth shall begin' it wasn't an edict or instruction

Yeah I think we need to hammer out what the goals of this project are, and decide who is going to be head honcho!

[IceGiant]

A quick run through Torrentscan hasn't found any pirate copies of the core books. The SPACEDOCK material seems popular, though.

The players guide, narrators, SOM, creatures, worlds and Mirror universe are all available on non torrent sharers last I looked.

[tonyg]

The players guide, narrators, SOM, creatures, worlds and Mirror universe are all available on non torrent sharers last I looked.

I got the SOM in pdf format, now. Wolds and Mirror and marked electroncially. But if someone can get the PG book (and others) we'd avoid a lot of work.

[tonyg]

Another thing... it could be also useful to have a few people in charge of the project, possibly with moderator powers, to prevent debates from going out of control and set the purpose of a discussion.
And, later on, to centralize the work, and being able to rule when a case is closed.

Pure democracy is good, but in my experience when it involves more than two people it turns to anarchy

Agrred. Some sort of overseer is required. We have a dozen differernt contributors, all of whom have a differernt take on how to run and what they like and dislike about CODA.

[tonyg]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting the system be based around, then–a spending system to avoid failure? That seems like a fairly radical departure from CODA as it stands.

No. I'm saying the ddamages past shields should be inscreased. Even using your WoK example, ships were not taking full broadsides but being hit by one or two weapons. The Enterprise was pretty much crippled after the first round.

Even something as simple as each point that gets past shields does 1D6 damage instead of 1 point would work.

A lack of rules doesn't equal not gaming–unless your GM is an ass. Everything in the game happens through consensus acceptance of GM fiat already, the rules just give the GM a framework to decide things with.

I disagree. THe rules also place limits on the GM. If I ran the way you descibed, I wound't want CODA. THe framework would just get in the way. Quite a few RPGs and gamers reject the GM fiat idea, and I'm one of them.

The worse Star Trek RPG experience I even had was becuase we had a GM who was going to tell his story, and he wasn't going to let anything like the players get in the way.

Dude, the damage ratings for phasers just say 'Kill.' Even a vorpal sword doesn't do that.

Yeah. But if you watch Star Trek you'll notice how often they use something other than a phaser. And then hit points matter. On TV people who get sprayed with submachineguns die just as easily as those shot by phasers. Knives are dangerous too.

And speaking of phasers, setting 7 &8 which should kill, might not. & doesn't bother me., But I would think that setting 8's vaporization result should have ade a damage roll irrelevant. Okay so a bunch of free floating subatomic particles have 6 wound points left.

Given your problems with the system, do you actually use it?

Didn't get the chance. I did run an ICON campaign for 3 years, and overall think ICON is a better system. I also think most of the accusations of CODA being a modfied D20 game hold water. It is just that the modfications are significant-no incrasing HP, skill based combat, and the freedome to decide what gets improved instead of getting level bonuses.

I like CODA's maenuver ship for statships and how they finally ditched the SFBM legacy and dumped power allocation. As I used to say years ago, power was never an issue on screen until something got damaged.

CODA does address a lot of ICON weak points, but we lost a lot of ICONSs strengths in the process. A knife fight between Kirk and an Ortion Spy was a tense, life (character) threning scene on screen and in ICON. In CODA it's not. Kirk has a buch of Wound points, and by the time the Orion could seriously hurt Kirk. Secuurity would have showed up.

[Cpt. Lundgren]

*************** ADMIN ALERT ****************

I will consider the previous comments that books from Decipher are floating around on the net as an academical observation that they exist. That point is now made. I will consider any further post on which pirated book that are found as an attempt to voice who-got-what and who to talk to if you want to get hold of an illegal copy.

I could have misunderstood how finding any PDF of Deciphers books would cut down on the work. But if it is anywhere close to my guess, I would recommend finding another place to continue that discussion.

**********************************************

[tonyg]

Consoider it dropped.

However, as I mentioned previously. Any sort of CODA 2.0 falls into the same legal trap. Since we would be making an unlisenced Star Trek RPG. If people want it to be identical to CODA trek then it will be identical to a pirated copy in legal terms as well.

There really is not distinction. And digital works are in the worse position legally.

So if the admins want to keep the board clear-probably the whole topic should be kept off the forum.

Scanning the SOM or retyping it verbatim (or even paraphrasing it) and adding new TREK content is all handled the same way.

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Hm, seems to be 3 main opinions in here

1. 100% compability with CODA.
2. Base it on CODA, but improve it.
3. Make or find a system suitable for roleplaying Trek. Any resemblance to CODA or ICON are optional.

Option 1 gives the advantage that any available module will work without any modification. This option will most likely on the other hand be the most difficult one to accomplice from a legal standpoint.

Option 2 will have some of the problems of option one, but does have a bit of more freedom in steering away from some of the worst legal mines. As the baseline is set (CODA) there is a quite a good chance to get people on the same page.

Option 3. Skill based? Classes or class-less? Levels? Hybrid? Cinematic? Simulationistic? Rule light? Crunchy? etc... Hell would be defrosted before anything reassembling consensus would be made. On the other hand, not a second would have to be spent thinking on if Deciphers IP are stepped on.

I vote on option 3. But only if it is a system I want to play

Edit:
tonyg, saw your post as I previewed this. I am quite sure that even option 1 is possible without getting out on deeper water than any other fan made material. But I also think that it actually would be harder to do than option 3.

[tonyg]

There is Option4.

No skystem in the supplment, but a conversion sheet for porting over toy our own favortie systems. If one of those happens to be CODA.

I don't see Decipher as an obstacle. The rules are fair game, but the setting isn't. Plus there is the fact that for Decipher to go after someone for IP, they'd have to spend money. it's going to be hard for them to do so. Especially since it would be to defend something that wasn't profitable.

Still, I'm more of an option 3 or 4 fan myself.

But I think a lot of people are in the Option1 or 2 (1.5) camp. Probably the majority.

Converting over to something like EABA wouldn't be tough. It's a semi open system, too. Stuff! lets you write up pretty much anything easily, and the TNs are farily easy to convert from CODA.

But that's just one possiblity.

I've toyed with using FATE/SotC for Trek in the past. THat's another.

But a consensus?

Maybe someone should do up a pool with the 4 options. and we go by the results?

1) 100% CODA (no addatives of sweetners)

2) CODA 2.0

3) Something else (TBA)

4) System-less writeups using generic terms than can be converted to a game of the GM's choice)

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Agrred. Some sort of overseer is required. We have a dozen differernt contributors, all of whom have a differernt take on how to run and what they like and dislike about CODA.

Totally called it.

Also, my vote is for Option 1, for reasons I've stated previously. Any discussion of the details of Option 3 should take place in General RP, not here.