Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Need some help from Trek canonites...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462

    Need some help from Trek canonites...

    Were there transporters (even if they were only one pad) on the Galileo class shuttles during the Wrath of Khan era?

    I realize I can rule this for my game as I please, but I would prefer to base this on canon.

    Thanks for the insight...

    Tomcat

    Narrator: Darkening of Mirkwood | Chronicle of the North | Tempest Rising | To Boldly Go | Welcome to the 501st!
    Esgalwen [♦♦♦♦○○] Dmg 9/11 | Edge 8 | Injury 16/18
    Nimronyn [Sindarin Pale gleam] superior keen, superior grievous longsword - orc bane, Foe-slaying
    Shadow bane, Skirmisher

  2. #2
    I don't believe we ever see an emergency transporter in a Movie Era shuttlecraft. I seem to recall that the first mention of a shuttlecraft equipped with a transporter occurs in the TNG episode "11001001".
    “In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations.”

    -- Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Worcester, MA USA
    Posts
    1,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Were there transporters (even if they were only one pad) on the Galileo class shuttles during the Wrath of Khan era?

    I realize I can rule this for my game as I please, but I would prefer to base this on canon.

    Thanks for the insight...

    Tomcat
    No. I think the smaller transporters are part of the TNG era. We didn't see a transporter on a shuttle until the Best of Both Worlds TNG episode, and it was a bit of a surprise/cheat.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462
    Thank you.

    The shuttle crew's gonna have to do it the hard way then.

    Narrator: Darkening of Mirkwood | Chronicle of the North | Tempest Rising | To Boldly Go | Welcome to the 501st!
    Esgalwen [♦♦♦♦○○] Dmg 9/11 | Edge 8 | Injury 16/18
    Nimronyn [Sindarin Pale gleam] superior keen, superior grievous longsword - orc bane, Foe-slaying
    Shadow bane, Skirmisher

  5. #5
    They're never mentioned as having them, and they don't use them in Star Trek V.
    Portfolio | Blog Currently Running: Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek GUMSHOE Currently Playing: DramaSystem, Swords & Wizardry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Worcester, MA USA
    Posts
    1,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Thank you.

    The shuttle crew's gonna have to do it the hard way then.
    Do what? Do what??

    Now I'm curious.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
    Do what? Do what??

    Now I'm curious.
    Well I will first invite you to our game site where you are welcome to read along with the story as it progresses. You'll find it at:

    http://roleplay.avioc.org

    But to give a brief synopsis (and post TOS and movie Trek, up to The Voyage Home, is not my most familiar genre, so those that know its history well will have to allow for creative license ) :

    Our game is focused on a Miranda-class vessel named the Columbia, which was enhanced with some new stealth tech. The story is taking place while Kirk is out there somewhere battling Khan... same time period.

    Anyway, after a series of adventures, they finally made it to the Fed-Klink frontier and their orders were revealed from Starfleet for them to collect data with some stealthy probes into both Rom and Klink space.

    Their data uncovered a plot between a lower house of the Klingon Empire and the Romulans. The Romulans had built a constitution mock-up and were going to use it to 'attack' into Klingon space, thus creating a ruse of potential conflict and while all eyes were looking there, it would allow for a coup d'etat on Qo'nos.

    Using the stealthy systems on their ship, the Fed crew decide to break Starfleet regs and attempt to destroy the Rom mock-up before it can all go down. In the process, and through diplomacy, they convince one Klingon captain of a venerable D6 battlecruiser, to aid them.

    The battle between Rom-Fed-Klink takes place and the Connie mock-up is destroyed but leaves the Columbia badly wounded and the D6 apparently dead.

    With limited functioning systems, the XO orders a shuttle to launch to go to see if there are any survivors aboard the D6. The shuttle crew find the boom broken from the the main hull, but life signs still within environmentally sealed compartments... including the bridge.

    So the hard part that they now need to achieve is, how do they get into the broken hull of the Klingon ship without exposing the survivors? They are looking for a docking port, but the passageways between shuttle and compartments have been vacuumed. Another challenge is the presence of two B'rels that just dropped from warp to investigate the area of space.

    So the Columbia is weak and almost defenseless. They are in a precarious position behind enemy lines, and their only ally that can help them out of the mess is trapped within his broken warship.

    We'll see what happens.

    Attached is the first 11 pages of our episode consolidated to story form.

    Tomcat
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Tomcat; 01-30-2008 at 10:08 PM.

    Narrator: Darkening of Mirkwood | Chronicle of the North | Tempest Rising | To Boldly Go | Welcome to the 501st!
    Esgalwen [♦♦♦♦○○] Dmg 9/11 | Edge 8 | Injury 16/18
    Nimronyn [Sindarin Pale gleam] superior keen, superior grievous longsword - orc bane, Foe-slaying
    Shadow bane, Skirmisher

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Worcester, MA USA
    Posts
    1,820
    Klink?

    I thought "Khaaaannn!" was bad. Now we have "Hoogaaan!"


    O suspense the big question is, consider the time frame, which shuttle are you using? TMP ones of ST V ones.

    The TMP one had a docking port, and it might be some sort of universal one, like we have on some naval deep sea rescue craft today.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462
    Yea, I was thinking about this... the crew are currently in a Galileo class shuttle, and I do not see any part of that ship that looks like a docking collar. So, they may need to return to the Columbia and grab one of the embarked travel pods (like in TMP).

    The only problem this creates is the distance between the two ships, a couple 100,000 KM. The Galileo at least has an impulse drive / warp drive that can make the distance moot. Then again, in TMP, did Scotty and Kirk come up from Earth's surface in the travel pod?

    Anyway, I am still waiting on my players to decide how they want to attempt this.

    It should be fun!

    Narrator: Darkening of Mirkwood | Chronicle of the North | Tempest Rising | To Boldly Go | Welcome to the 501st!
    Esgalwen [♦♦♦♦○○] Dmg 9/11 | Edge 8 | Injury 16/18
    Nimronyn [Sindarin Pale gleam] superior keen, superior grievous longsword - orc bane, Foe-slaying
    Shadow bane, Skirmisher

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Worcester, MA USA
    Posts
    1,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Yea, I was thinking about this... the crew are currently in a Galileo class shuttle, and I do not see any part of that ship that looks like a docking collar. So, they may need to return to the Columbia and grab one of the embarked travel pods (like in TMP).

    The only problem this creates is the distance between the two ships, a couple 100,000 KM. The Galileo at least has an impulse drive / warp drive that can make the distance moot. Then again, in TMP, did Scotty and Kirk come up from Earth's surface in the travel pod?

    Anyway, I am still waiting on my players to decide how they want to attempt this.

    It should be fun!

    I wouldn't grab the travel pod, I'd grab one of the the shuttle craft they made for TMP. The Vulcan Shuttle and Warp Sled was originally a Starfleet shuttle (that's why it has a Starfleet docking collar, and why you'll often see it with Star Fleet markings. It has the docking collar, iris ports on the top and bottom, and was modular with a bunch of cool add ons, including a medical pod. Like the stuff for the Work Bee we never saw much of this on screen, but the shuttle was made. There were a few different types, like so:




    And here is the medical pod:




    Of course, Klingon docking ports might be triangular....


    Oh, BTW, it's not canon but Jackill's gives the Galileo a 2 person transporter. It also has them warp capable, though. So if you want to go easy on them, you have some justification for it.


    I was thinking about this and have a couple of possible solutions and possible the for the shuttles.

    1) Find an airlock. Put on EVA suits and spacewalk inside. One inside can use Klingon transporters to beam survivors to shuttle.

    2) Find a escape pod (assuming some have been used) or a window. Use the shuttle's phaser to cut open a hole. Extend shuttles shields to cover the opening (to keep the room from decompressing). Instant entrance.

    3) It might just be that shuttles have an extendable, flexible docking port of some type. It would seem to make a lot of sense. Sort of like a vacuum cleaner hose, it isn't too study, but does the job in a spot.


    BTW, the Miranda-class is much better suited for this. Both in terms of equipment, and in terms of how quickly it could move people off and on. Even if they find survivors a shuttle has limited capacity. Is there a reason why the mother ship can't get close?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    3,462
    I am fairly sure that shuttles in that era didn't have a transporter, because of the power requirements and the physical bulk.. The transporter we have on Data's pod in BoBW was just an emergency transporter, and didn't have a pattern buffer (Aka one try only, no room for error!) Considering a pattern buffer has to contain a volume equivalent to a person or person, where exactly are they supposed to fit! The Runabout was the first shuttle to have a full transporter, because they had the space for the buffer (you can see it underneath the ship hehe) but even then it's only a 2 man transporter.

    With the exception of the 'Vulcan' shuttle, most shuttles had no warp drive, and or wouldn't have very fast warp drive. I think most of the shuttles in the TNG tech manual are listed as only 2.2 max, and it wasn't untill the Runabout and speedboat shuttles in Voyager, they could go very far at all, very fast!

    Docking with other ships is always a problem, if they don't have space for a universal docking collar (an extendible tube thing would take up a lot of space!) I think the easiest way for them to get in would be to just all put on spacesuits, and vent the atmosphere, and float accross, though in a pinch, they could maybe clamp to the hull, next to the Klingon ship, and extend the shuttles shields around the airlock area, creating a 'cheap' universal seal. That said, they may want to put on space suits.. if part of the ship are exposed to space, they won't get an emergency beamout if they run into problems! They also have the problem of how well the Klingon design is laid out with respects to bulkheads, Klingons may be trapped in pockets of the ship, unable to leave by any route (the bird of prey is very spindly, with no space for any emergency jeffries tube style crawlspaces etc)..

    The one issue I have with this scenario is - isn't it a bit suicidal for them to be going in to help the klingons in this situation. It's one thing to beam them onboard your ship, where you can safely contain them, but another of how are they to restrain a 'few' klingons, and squeeze them all into the shuttle?! The Klingons may well be spoiling for a fight, they wrere just in one, and not licked yet!

    A less PC scenario may well be to both safeguard the klingon survivors AND help to secure their position: If they head to the Engineering section, they may well be able to get both the Klingon transporter systems online, and their forcefields, so they can raise the emergency bulkhead forcefields. that way they can contain the Klingons, control the ship, save lives, but in a pinch blow the ships reactor to take out the roving BOP's
    Ta Muchly

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462
    First of all thanks for all the help, comments, and ideas, as well as the interest in our ongoing campaign!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyG
    I was thinking about this and have a couple of possible solutions and possible the for the shuttles.

    1) Find an airlock. Put on EVA suits and spacewalk inside. One inside can use Klingon transporters to beam survivors to shuttle.

    2) Find a escape pod (assuming some have been used) or a window. Use the shuttle's phaser to cut open a hole. Extend shuttles shields to cover the opening (to keep the room from decompressing). Instant entrance.

    3) It might just be that shuttles have an extendable, flexible docking port of some type. It would seem to make a lot of sense. Sort of like a vacuum cleaner hose, it isn't too study, but does the job in a spot.


    BTW, the Miranda-class is much better suited for this. Both in terms of equipment, and in terms of how quickly it could move people off and on. Even if they find survivors a shuttle has limited capacity. Is there a reason why the mother ship can't get close?
    These are great suggestions Tony and I am going to keep them in mind, but obviously, I want to see what the players come up with as ideas. This whole episode is a challenge of time and ingenuity, with limited assets (I will explain this more below).

    Anyway, the reason the Columbia hasn't just flown over to the destroyed battlecruiser is because of her own damage.

    The long story short of my campaign is - the Romulan vessel was never meant to be a true warship, just a trojan horse. A smoking gun if you will. The Rommies have no desire to get into a war with the Fed right now, but they certainly do not mind watching them and the Klingons bash each other up. Then their hopes were that when all the dust settled, neither political entity would have the strength or will to stop the Romulan Empire from making new claims.

    This said, the Rom Emp agreed to assist in the Klingon coup and have eyes averted towards the Fed with their fake Connie. They knew that the mock-up might be destroyed, so they purposely filled it with nukes for self-destruction, in hopes that they'd blow indistinguishable pieces all over Klingon space and even in death, point the finger back to the Fed. This making sense?

    So, when the ship's doom was approaching after the combat with the Columbia nd the Klingon D6, the nukes went off and an EMP at close range overwhelmed the already weakened shields of the Columbia and locked up the computer core. So even though they had operating systems (i.e. propulsion, weapons, etc.) the network was frozen and so the ship can't safely move, scan, transport, etc.

    So the engineering dept. did a re-boot, and now they are waiting for the ship computer to read through the millions of library files and give access to the systems via LCARS. I have a time table when each system comes back online and can be used... needless to say, transporters are not yet available. The presence of the two B'rels has caused a bit of urgency in rescuing the other Klingons from the 'dead' battlecruiser.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    I am fairly sure that shuttles in that era didn't have a transporter, because of the power requirements and the physical bulk.. The transporter we have on Data's pod in BoBW was just an emergency transporter, and didn't have a pattern buffer (Aka one try only, no room for error!) Considering a pattern buffer has to contain a volume equivalent to a person or person, where exactly are they supposed to fit! The Runabout was the first shuttle to have a full transporter, because they had the space for the buffer (you can see it underneath the ship hehe) but even then it's only a 2 man transporter.

    With the exception of the 'Vulcan' shuttle, most shuttles had no warp drive, and or wouldn't have very fast warp drive. I think most of the shuttles in the TNG tech manual are listed as only 2.2 max, and it wasn't untill the Runabout and speedboat shuttles in Voyager, they could go very far at all, very fast!

    Docking with other ships is always a problem, if they don't have space for a universal docking collar (an extendible tube thing would take up a lot of space!) I think the easiest way for them to get in would be to just all put on spacesuits, and vent the atmosphere, and float accross, though in a pinch, they could maybe clamp to the hull, next to the Klingon ship, and extend the shuttles shields around the airlock area, creating a 'cheap' universal seal. That said, they may want to put on space suits.. if part of the ship are exposed to space, they won't get an emergency beamout if they run into problems! They also have the problem of how well the Klingon design is laid out with respects to bulkheads, Klingons may be trapped in pockets of the ship, unable to leave by any route (the bird of prey is very spindly, with no space for any emergency jeffries tube style crawlspaces etc)..
    Hey Tobian, yea, I am already going with the mindset that transporters are not an option. Your thoughts about an extendable tube makes good sense, and so I am vetoing that available option.

    It looks like EVA suits will be the only way to go. But I like both of your ideas of using the shuttle shields.

    As far as warp capabilities, I bought the Miranda schematics a couple years past and the following list comes from those sheets (See attached pic). It looks official enough for me to go with the idea that the embarked Galileo and Aladdin shuttles have limited warp capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian
    The one issue I have with this scenario is - isn't it a bit suicidal for them to be going in to help the klingons in this situation. It's one thing to beam them onboard your ship, where you can safely contain them, but another of how are they to restrain a 'few' klingons, and squeeze them all into the shuttle?! The Klingons may well be spoiling for a fight, they wrere just in one, and not licked yet!
    The Klingon commander that they are trying to rescue, named Vrang, through diplomacy and proof of the Rommie mock-up, agreed to assist the Columbia in the destruction of the fake ship. He is the only Klingon of authority that can corroborate that the Fed really had nothing to do with the attacking vessel, and attest to why the Columbia is on the Klingon side of the NZ.

    See, all the while that these three ships fought it out, a conspiracy was taking place by one of the lower klingon houses to vie for power of the empire. The predominant house was in a state of semi-anarchy itself due to the death of the leader. The lower house saw it as a perfect opportunity to take overall command. They asked the Romulans to play a minor part, but put the blame on the Fed.

    Needless to say, our heroes caught onto the conspiracy and have gotten mixed up in trying to prevent the coup. The fear that diplomatic relations between the two governments could be set back 20 plus years is undesirable. And so the captain of the Columbia ordered his ship over the NZ - he only has one ally there though and so he needs to save him from his dead ship.

    Does all that make sense?
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Narrator: Darkening of Mirkwood | Chronicle of the North | Tempest Rising | To Boldly Go | Welcome to the 501st!
    Esgalwen [♦♦♦♦○○] Dmg 9/11 | Edge 8 | Injury 16/18
    Nimronyn [Sindarin Pale gleam] superior keen, superior grievous longsword - orc bane, Foe-slaying
    Shadow bane, Skirmisher

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Worcester, MA USA
    Posts
    1,820
    TOmcat,

    Yeah, of course it's up to the players. I was just throwing some stuff out there in case you were looking for some options for them.

    Oh, I noticed that the pic you posted has a image of the Chisu-class Shuttle (that's the Light Shuttle from my pic).

    U've got some CODA stats for that, as well as the other shuttles if you want them.

    I've got data on the Galileo too, if you want it. As well as all the different stuff for the work bee, travel pod, killer bee,wasp fighter and such. Pretty much all the shuttlecraft listed.

    Let me know if you want any of it.

    If you want to give the PCs a break, the Chisu-class with a medical pod or two would be a godsend. The medical pod can carry two medical personnel, and 12 patients (a passenger pod could carry 20 passrngers.
    Last edited by tonyg; 01-31-2008 at 12:28 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    3,462
    Ahh that makes more sense yes, Semi-friendly Klingons

    and yeah Tomcat, no one is telling you how to do it, but it always pays to be prepared when your players do one of the two things they always do...

    1) Find that solution you never thought of, or find a plothole they can park their bus in, and then disembark unhindered

    2) assume something is as simple as falling off a log, or that they can just roll the dice and it magically is resolved
    Ta Muchly

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian View Post
    1) Find that solution you never thought of, or find a plothole they can park their bus in, and then disembark unhindered
    LOL! Yea, this is the dreaded fear faced by most narrators... what did I miss?

    That is one thing about playing in this genre that I have always been challenged with - the technology. Until CODA Trek, my twenty-five years of gaming has been sword and sorcery where there weren't replicators and whatcha-ma-doozits that could solve challenges with ease.

    So this particular episode has been quite enjoyable for me - the damage to the Miranda has limited the characters to their skills and basic hand-held tools. It was fun to watch the PC's rummage around, in the dark, on the ship, wondering why the lights won't come on; having to use the stairs; needing to launch a shuttlecraft to scan the surrounding space for any dangers.

    The players are showing their roleplaying colors though! It's very fun!

    Narrator: Darkening of Mirkwood | Chronicle of the North | Tempest Rising | To Boldly Go | Welcome to the 501st!
    Esgalwen [♦♦♦♦○○] Dmg 9/11 | Edge 8 | Injury 16/18
    Nimronyn [Sindarin Pale gleam] superior keen, superior grievous longsword - orc bane, Foe-slaying
    Shadow bane, Skirmisher

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •