Starship Components

[tonyg]

I've been thinking of revising and expanding the CODA ship construction rules.

I'd like to include all the various nacelle types (PB-30, PB31, PB-32, PB-47, LN-60, LN-64, LN-72, etc) and weapon types (Mark IX emitters, RIM-12C phasers, etc),

I am planning on going through Ships of the Starfleet and the ASDB stuff, but was wondering if anyone knows of any sort of list of ships.


I'd also like to extend thing into some of the smaller engines to give a bit more variance in performance for shuttles and other low end craft. I figure an engine that can do .3c or .1c and such can't hurt anything.

I've got a revised offense table that combines Table 1.17 and 1.18 into one and seems to work out right, with most ships getting the same Peneration values.


Got some options for things like:

*handling individual phasers (so we don't have to divide by 2)
*warp-channeled phasers
*modifying engines (So you can get a LN-64 Mod 4 or some such in play)
*limiting Penetration by phaser type (so 30 Type 3 phasers are not better than 5 Type X phasers-at least not if the target has shields).
*The various Enterprise refits from the Launch, Pilot Era, early TOS, late TOS, TMP, and 1701-A models.



But does anyone have some info or list of components to save me a little work?

[Tobian]

Sorry no, but it sounds like a cool project !

One thing I always thought would be good in Coda is photorp speeds, if it's anything other than point-blank-medium (I.e. phaser range) add a time interval, so people can react accordingly, or try to shoot them down? Just a thought

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Mmm... you'd need rules for varying the speeds too, though...

[tonyg]

Sorry no, but it sounds like a cool project !

One thing I always thought would be good in Coda is photorp speeds, if it's anything other than point-blank-medium (I.e. phaser range) add a time interval, so people can react accordingly, or try to shoot them down? Just a thought

I hat something like that in an eariler game.

In CODA terms the torps got to move on the turn they were launched and did Close manevers until they got close enough to Ram. I could adapt it.

[tonyg]

Mmm... you'd need rules for varying the speeds too, though...

Do you mean like in FASA where a smaller ship was faster with the same engines? Possibly. One way to do it would be to give a bonus or penalty based on the ships size vs the max size. Using FASA as a inspiration the FWC-1 (PB-32) engines with Siz 7, wf 6/7/8 could get a +1 if used on Size 5 ships and +2 for Size 4 or less ships. If we wanted to do that. Or maybe just simplify and say you get +1 wf if you ship is half the max size?











Depending on where I decide to draw the line on this, I could add in a M/A reactor and use that to power components. No power allocation, but sort of a restriction ofn how much stuff you can put on a ship in addition to Space limits. Or not. Maybe I could just treat it like a Flaw and give 5 points for downgrading all the speeds 1wf?


I've got something worked up for single Warp Engine ships too, and will probably put in in the sidebar/optional rules. It is pretty much 1/2 the space (round up) -1 to warp speeds, and -1 to Min Size and Reliability.


One thing I would like to do is a table with engines for shuttles and other Size 1-2 craft. Most on screen stuff sort of hints that small ships are pretty fast, yet most 22nd century impulse engines are a bit big. I've been doing up all the TMP era shuttles and Work Bee and such, and there really isn't much "wiggle room" in component selection.

I'fd also like to tweak things so that Type I-III phasers go back to being handheldf weapons, and the Type IV is small enough to fit on shuttlecraft in TNG.

If the Connie is using Mark IX emitters, I don't need to worry about it having a Type IV phaser, and so the Type IV will end up being a smaller phaser with the same punch, only developed years later.

I've been going through the Dixon Chronology and Ships of the Starfleet and ASDB to get started but hope I don't have to deconstruct everything.


I think one benefit of this will be that there will be more options for ships build inbetween eras. For instance:

LN-52 SCCN
LN-60
LN-64
LN-64A
LN-64B


LN-65A
LN-68
LN-72
LN-74
LN-83
LN-90
LN-91
LN-94
LN-98


Gives us another 10 choices for the Late 23rd century era, and 2-3 more would fill in the gap unitl 2312 when the LF series of engines start up.

[IKI]

I was facing a similar problem with the damages from all the different weapon systems, so I made this table a couple of years ago:

Attachment 985

The OV represents the Reliability and not the Damage any more.

The Concentrate Fire (ESO) does not work with this alternative system.
The Multi-weapon maneuver can be used to fire two identical weapon systems if you have more than 1 installed. Example: You can use this to fire 2 Quantum torpedoes if you have 2 Quantum mark I Torpedoe Launchers installed.

[tonyg]

I was facing a similar problem with the damages from all the different weapon systems, so I made this table a couple of years ago:

Attachment 985

The OV represents the Reliability and not the Damage any more.

The Concentrate Fire (ESO) does not work with this alternative system.
The Multi-weapon maneuver can be used to fire two identical weapon systems if you have more than 1 installed. Example: You can use this to fire 2 Quantum torpedoes if you have 2 Quantum mark I Torpedoe Launchers installed.

Interesting. I was thinking of some sort of option for damage by weapon type too, but I actually went in a differernt direction.

I managed to combine both tables. Table 1.18 is really the same as 1.17 except the offenses are have and the "break Points" different. Oh and it have a cap of 2. So by double the TNG era offenses I could use the same chart.

But, by tripling the TNG offenses, I could use the numbers for Ships of the Starfleet. So a Movie-era Constitution-class with 6 banks of RIM-12C phasers would have an Offense of 72 for 5/5/4 on the new table.

One of the advantages of this will be that a TNG era shuttle can have a Type IV phaser again without making them available to ship in the TOS era. Likewise the Type IV can take up fewer spaces than the old TOS era Lockheed 554/47 Mark IX emitters.

I've spent some time going through SotS and ASDM and have gotten a start on various warp engine models. There are a few engines with multiple speed values, but in many cases it can be explained away as improvements in design.


For instance the Galaxy class has the 6/9.2/9.6 warp engine, but we know that it orginally was moving at 6/9/9.2, so both sets of values are correct, but you only get the higher values after Gerodi's modfication comes out.

[tonyg]

I got all thw warp drives from the NG, SS, Ships of the Starfleet, and ASDB, and Dixion TImeline all on one chart. Oddly enough, with a few exceptions from the SotS and ASDB most of the drives follow a fairly logical progression. In fact the NG actually helps to fill in some gaps. I've got about 100 drives from the ENT era through to the end of the 24th Century.

I'm going to look at shuttle and see about a small craft (Size 1-2) engine table.

I'm also thinking of filling in some interim designs for the early years. Stuff like Warp3 and Warp 4 engines, and a few designs that slowly creep up to the next breakthrough. This will help to keep all the "tween" era ships from being the same.

I think that as long as none of the new designs outperform the old standbys thing should be okay. Most of the new engines are usually inferior in a couple of ways. Like a jump in top spped is paid for in Reliability, Max Ship Size or both. Some designs will have a very short time before they are superseded by something better (a gold old standard design).

[IKI]

I managed to combine both tables. Table 1.18 is really the same as 1.17 except the offenses are have and the "break Points" different. Oh and it have a cap of 2. So by double the TNG era offenses I could use the same chart.

Is it possible to put them on some sort of file, because I'm very intreseted.
And can you give some more examples if it is possible, because I can't seem to follow the examples.

[tonyg]

Is it possible to put them on some sort of file, because I'm very intreseted.

Yeah, I can send the table, but I still have to check out a few of the weapon offense ratings to see how the match up. While most ships should be close to thier old Penetration values, it is possible for some craft to miss a break point and require that a weapon get's tweaked a little.


And can you give some more examples if it is possible, because I can't seem to follow the examples.[/QUOTE]

SUre. First I'll explain how Table 1.1.7 and 1.1.8 are related in STARSHIPS. Generally speaking, the two tables are the same, except that 1.17 is about half the Offense of of weapon on Table 1.18

For instance, If you had a pre-TOS ship with six PC 54/2 phase cannons, they would have 7 offense each for a 42 total Offense. On Table 1.17 that would give you a Penetration of 4/4/4/0/0.

If we used half that offense, 21 (42/2=21) and used table 1.18 we would end up with a Penetration of 4/4/4/0/0. THe same.

The only realy difference is that 1.1.7 givees finer grades of distiction, since the differences in firepower are less pronounced. One more laser isn't the same as one more Type VII phaser.


So if you doubled all the Table 1.18 weaponry you could combine the two charts. THis would let you use one firepower table, and give you more grades of detail and the low end, allowing for fine shades of detail between less advanced ships or small craft like shuttles.


But, it you kick up the table a little more say x3 unstead of x2, then the TOS and TMP era weapon ratings like Mark IX emitter and RIM-12C phasers can actuallty use the classification number as the offense.

Part of the table looks like this:

OFFENSE | BEAM | PHOTON*
1 | 1/0/0/0/0 | 1/1/1/1/1
3 | 2/0/0/0/0 | 1/1/1/1/1
4-5 | 2/1/0/0/0 | 1/1/1/1/1
6 | 2/2/0/0/0 | 2/2/2/2/2
7-8 | 2/2/1/0/0 | 2/2/2/2/2
9 | 2/2/2/0/0 | 2/2/2/2/2
10-12 | 3/2/2/0/0 | 3/3/3/3/3
13-17 | 3/3/2/0/0 | 3/3/3/3/3
18-23 | 3/3/3/0/0 | 4/4/4/4/4
24-30 | 4/3/3/0/0 | 4/4/4/4/4
31-45 | 4/4/3/0/0 | 5/5/5/5/5
46-60 | 4/4/4/0/0 | 5/5/5/5/5
61-75 | 5/4/4/0/0 | 6/6/6/6/6
76-90 | 5/5/4/0/0 | 6/6/6/6/6
91-105 | 5/5/5/0/0 | 6/6/6/6/6
106-120 | 6/5/5/0/0| 7/7/7/7/7
121-135 | 6/6/5/0/0 | 7/7/7/7/7
136-157 | 6/6/6/0/0 | 8/8/8/8/8
158-180 | 7/6/6/0/0 | 8/8/8/8/8
181-203 | 7/7/6/0/0 | 9/9/9/9/9




So a Constitution class Starship with 6 banks of RIM-12C phasers would have 6x12=72 Offense. On the revised chart this would give a Penetration of 5/4/4/0/0 the same as in STARSHIPS.

TNG era phasers would now have an offense of 3x their rating. So a Galaxy-class starship with 5 Type X phasers would have an Offense of 150 for Penetration 6/6/6/0/0, again matching up with STARSHIPS.

For Photorps the new rating appears to be about twice the old offense +1. The asterisk on the table is for Photorp launchers made prior to 2190 or so, that must zero out the extended range damage.

So the two Mk 6DF on the Constitution- Class wouldnow have an Offense of 9 each for a total of 18 for a Penetration of 4/4/4/4/4. Once again matching the totals in the book.




The advantages of the revised table are that we can use the TNP era numbers, and that there is a lot more "wiggle room" for design ships below the level of the TOS era. For instance, in STARSHIPS the Connie has Type IV or V phasers, at 4-5 offense each. So that really gives us only 3 grades below that for designing ships. With table 1.18 even less since the damage has a minimum Penetration of 2/2/2/0/0. Now, with the Old Connie's phasers at 9 point each, we have eight grades of offense below that, and a 5 different Penetration values below that to match.

It also lets us make the TNG era weapon's slightly smaller for the same offense, and lower the Size minimum of a Type IV phaser so it can be put of shuttles liek on TV. Because the Type IV no longer has to do double duty as the Lockheed 554/47 Mark IX emitters.


Hope that helps. Hope I didn't make it more confusing!

[IKI]

Hope that helps. Hope I didn't make it more confusing!

Thanks for te reply. Your explenation helps a bit. If I understand correctelly:

Beam Weaons:
Enterprise Era = Offense x1
TOS era = Offense x2
TNG era = Offense x3
And consult your table.

Missile Weapons:
That part is not very clear to me.
Torpedoes = (Offense x2)+1 (end extended ranges 0 for torpedoes before 2190)
And consult your table, and add 1 to the Penetration for quantum torpedoes.

But how do you calculate the Offense Value for Nuclear/Fusion missiles, Spacial Torpedoes, and Plasma Torpedoes (very important to have some sort of rule for them, because they use a seperate table)

The advantages of the revised table are that we can use the TNP era numbers, and that there is a lot more "wiggle room" for design ships below the level of the TOS era. For instance, in STARSHIPS the Connie has Type IV or V phasers, at 4-5 offense each. So that really gives us only 3 grades below that for designing ships. With table 1.18 even less since the damage has a minimum Penetration of 2/2/2/0/0. Now, with the Old Connie's phasers at 9 point each, we have eight grades of offense below that, and a 5 different Penetration values below that to match.

Their you lost me . How do you get a 9 offense for for the old Connie, if I use your table I have 4x2 (TOS era) = 8.

[Tobian]

Just to avoid retyping what I just wrote, how about a simple rule like I just wrote here...

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...927#post167927

Maybe basing it on 'ages' - like you say - Enterprise - TOS - Ambassador - TNG - 25th century, and so on +/-1 per era.. that way older ships with mucho weapons are kept in check, till they are updated.

[tonyg]

Thanks for te reply. Your explenation helps a bit. If I understand correctelly:

Beam Weaons:
Enterprise Era = Offense x1
TOS era = Offense x2
TNG era = Offense x3
And consult your table.

Not quite. They way it works is:

TOS Era: Offense = to weapon type/number. So the Mark IX emitters for the Constitution-class would be 9 Offense per bank. The Movie era Enterprise with RIM-12C phasers banks would be 12 Offense per bank. The RIM-15s on the Excelsior-class would be worth 15 offense and so on.

TNG Era: Offense =3x phaser type. So a Type X phaser is worth 30 offense.
Actually, if we do it by individual arrays we could go with 1.5 times the type and then track all 11 arrays on the Galaxy-class.

Previous era would use something similar to TOS if the number held. Basically if Connie's MArk IX emitters are worth 9 Offense then previous era beam weapons should be offense 8 or less and or large.

To some extent how the apply this depends of if people are going to use ENT or stick with the original chronology. That would make a difference as to early ships being armed with lasers or phase cannons, or dilithium focused lasers (maybe the laser equivalent of a Q-torp)
However most of the pre-TOS beam weapons in the SS could all be used at their current offense, since it falls below the Mark IX emitter.

Missile Weapons:
That part is not very clear to me.
Torpedoes = (Offense x2)+1 (end extended ranges 0 for torpedoes before 2190)
And consult your table, and add 1 to the Penetration for quantum torpedoes.

But how do you calculate the Offense Value for Nuclear/Fusion missiles, Spacial Torpedoes, and Plasma Torpedoes (very important to have some sort of rule for them, because they use a separate table)

No you got it right. For fusion missiles and SMB's you use the same x2+1 fomula. They have a different column on the table that I didn't post with the example.

Their you lost me . How do you get a 9 offense for for the old Connie, if I use your table I have 4x2 (TOS era) = 8.

Look at the formula you wrote down above.

Torpedoes = (Offense x2)+1

SO if the Mark 12 IF launchers are listed as 4 in the book (4x2)+1= 9.

[tonyg]

Just to avoid retyping what I just wrote, how about a simple rule like I just wrote here...

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...927#post167927

Maybe basing it on 'ages' - like you say - Enterprise - TOS - Ambassador - TNG - 25th century, and so on +/-1 per era.. that way older ships with mucho weapons are kept in check, till they are updated.

A tech level modifer is an idea. In fact I'm for saddling older ships with the "outdated" flaw. Roughly one system per decade or so unless it is getting updated/refit.

The idea I'm shooting for here is to expand the tables in SS to allow people to build TOS and Movie era ships with the tech and tems from that era rather than TNG era. And to combine all the weapons onto one offense chart instead of having two different tables.



If we wanted to go simple, we could get rid of all the components and buy systems by performance rather than type. We could even factor in a era effect. For instance, if phasers give 1 offense per space then 30 offense would cost 30 spaces. We could give a cost break by era too. So maybe TNG era gets a discount on space, or just bump oup thier penetration scores a row on the table.

Something similar could be done with ither systems. For instance sensors cost be +1 per space and get a bonus or penalty by era,; life support and ops would cost Half Size +1 per level, with a modfier for tech era and so on.




We could just do something like rate each era with the tech mod and new ships will end up with better systems in the same space by default.

For instance if TNG era was +2 Tech Era, then a +3/C sensor system that costs 3 points would get bumped up to +5/E quality.

On the other hand, if The TOS Pilot era was -1 Tech Era, then we'd only get a +2/B sensor for out trouble.


THat would be very simple, but we would loose some of the flavor of the engine and weapon types. Sort of the opposite direction that I'm going in but a valid option.

[Tobian]

yeah, though here, I thought the tech modifier was more something you would use in play, rather than something you would edit your ship with. as you say it would make the ships loose flavour, and get complex!

Ruminate some more