Are Type F shuttlecraft warp capable?

[tonyg]

Okay, what do most people think. Are the shuttlecraft from TOS warp capable?

I know that the RPGs have generally said no, but I wonder. From what we see on screen:

1) They have nacelles, and thise are the warp drives on every other ship with the possible exception of the Romulan BoP, which has even more problems that the shuttle (unless you assume it had some sort of FTL drive that wasn't sued on screen).

2) Kirk goes chasing after the Entperise in one. Stuipd, yeah. The Enterprise can probably outrun a warp shuttle, but certainly can outrun one going at impulse. It is sort of odd that there are no other ships at the starbase to either chance the Enterprise or rescure some idtiot captain and a bigger idiot Commondore who went off joyriding in a sublight shuttle while a Starship is mysterously talking off.

3) Several times the crew uses a shuttle to make trips that don't make sense unless they have warp drive. Like when delivering the comissioner in the TOS episode Metamorphosis. Putting someone with a serious health problem on a sublight ship doesn't make much sense. The Enterprise would have to get pretty close to the system to drop them off in the first place. A low warp cabable shuttle seems to make more sense.


What do others think?

[PGoodman13]

I think you've pretty clearly outlined all the reasons why shuttles in TOS have to be warp-capable, Tony. Not that TOS was ever particularly consistent about things like that, of course, but there's considerable on-screen evidence that says they are (though, to judge from the episode "The Galileo 7", it might not be a matter/anti-matter reactor considering they're recharging the thing with phasers).

My personal primary source for TOS starships, the Franz Joseph Technical Manual, doesn't appear to list anything regarding velocity for the shuttlecraft, so there's no contradiction there. So as far as I'm concerned, you should go for it.

[tonyg]

I think you've pretty clearly outlined all the reasons why shuttles in TOS have to be warp-capable, Tony. Not that TOS was ever particularly consistent about things like that, of course, but there's considerable on-screen evidence that says they are (though, to judge from the episode "The Galileo 7", it might not be a matter/anti-matter reactor considering they're recharging the thing with phasers).

My personal primary source for TOS starships, the Franz Joseph Technical Manual, doesn't appear to list anything regarding velocity for the shuttlecraft, so there's no contradiction there. So as far as I'm concerned, you should go for it.

Cool. I started working on a starship project. Originally I was doing up CODA SSstats for the ST V shuttle, the TMP shuuttles/waprsled and the Wasp fighter. Then I exanped to inlude the ships from various deckplans, the differernt vriantions of the TMP shuttle, the aquashuttles, the work bee family and so on.

I did up a couple of docs with the shuttles, and went to Jackhill's and got info relative to each other to revise the various craft against each other. I put it on a spreadsheet I just need to revise my earlier stuff. And I've run across a few fan variants that seem pretty good and fill in some gaps.

Then I thought, why not do a comprehensive book of suttlecraft? I've got 2270-2300 pretty well covered, I could go back and do the shuttles from TOS, TAS, the original Jeffries shuttle that they couldn't afford to make (that could be a "Cage" era shuttle). Not to mention ships from the TNG era, and some designs to cover all the blank space betweens eras. Like shuttles from 2325 or 2211.

I wanted to get some other peoples' reaction to the idea of TOS warp shuttles before writing them up and making them available.


I've seen some deck plans that give the TOS shuttle Warp 2 capability. Not great but enough to make short hops.

[UFC465537]

I play my game with shuttles having warp speed. I think they would be pretty useless without warp capability. TOS was never very specific whether they did or not, but there are a couple episodes where it wouldn't make sense if they didn't:

"Court Martial": How could the shuttle with Kirk and Commodore Whatshisname have any hope of catching up with the Enterprise that's racing to Talos IV?

"Let This Be Our Last Battlefield": Loki steals a shuttlecraft from Starbase whatever and tries to escape. At .8c it would take him decades to get anywhere, provided noone bothers to track him down the first week before the shuttle leaves the system.

I figure they might go warp 3, maybe 4. Anyways, just my 2 cents worth.

[tonyg]

I play my game with shuttles having warp speed. I think they would be pretty useless without warp capability. TOS was never very specific whether they did or not, but there are a couple episodes where it wouldn't make sense if they didn't:

"Court Martial": How could the shuttle with Kirk and Commodore Whatshisname have any hope of catching up with the Enterprise that's racing to Talos IV?

"Let This Be Our Last Battlefield": Loki steals a shuttlecraft from Starbase whatever and tries to escape. At .8c it would take him decades to get anywhere, provided noone bothers to track him down the first week before the shuttle leaves the system.

I figure they might go warp 3, maybe 4. Anyways, just my 2 cents worth.

TOS never really nailed down the Warp speed numbers on screen. I know the making of book gave us the Wf^3c formula, but even that is too slow for on screen. Even at Warp 4 it's a three week trip from Earth to Alpha Centuari. Not the sort of trip I'd want to make in something with the limited room and accommodations of a shuttle. Even the freighter and such in TOS were going pretty slow. Can't be helped.




But I was thinking of doing up a heavy long range shuttle like the one from TAS and that could go a bit faster.

Warped9 did some really good mock ups at Trek BBS and I was thinking on emailing him and getting permission to use his shuttle designs to help flesh out the TOS era. For instance something like this:




this:




and this:

could really help "flesh out" the TOS shuttlecraft. Oh, and it's Wapred 9's artwork. Not mine. But I'd just love to stat out those craft and put them in a shuttlebook with the rest.

[tonyg]

I play my game with shuttles having warp speed. I think they would be pretty useless without warp capability. TOS was never very specific whether they did or not, but there are a couple episodes where it wouldn't make sense if they didn't:

"Court Martial": How could the shuttle with Kirk and Commodore Whatshisname have any hope of catching up with the Enterprise that's racing to Talos IV?

"Let This Be Our Last Battlefield": Loki steals a shuttlecraft from Starbase whatever and tries to escape. At .8c it would take him decades to get anywhere, provided noone bothers to track him down the first week before the shuttle leaves the system.

I figure they might go warp 3, maybe 4. Anyways, just my 2 cents worth.

TOS never really nailed down the Warp speed numbers on screen. I know the making of book gave us the Wf^3c formula, but even that is too slow for on screen. Even at Warp 4 it's a three week trip from Earth to Alpha Centuari. Not the sort of trip I'd want to make in something with the limited room and accommodations of a shuttle. Even the freighter and such in TOS were going pretty slow. Can't be helped.




But I was thinking of doing up a heavy long range shuttle like the one from TAS and that could go a bit faster.

Someone did some really good mock ups at Trek BBS and I was thinking on emailing him and getting permission to use his shuttle designs to help flesh out the TOS era. For instance something like this:




this:




and this:



could really help "flesh out" the TOS shuttlecraft.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Well, they have nacelles.

[toadmage]

As GM I played shuttles having warp 5 speed with 2 or 3 weeks fuel . Otherwise shuttles are pretty useless . My reasons are the same as yours .

[tonyg]

So it looks like most people have gone with Warp capable shuttles.

Guess then I'll do that with the TOS era ones. THe smll one will have liited capability and the bigger ones a bit more. Since most data gives the TMP warp sled about warp 4 ability I'll keep TOS shuttle below that, but give the long range ones a big more in the way of creature comforts, like a bunk or two. Pretty much a less advanced runabout.


As for travel times at warp, well the shows have usually played it fast and loose with that. The Enterprise manages to get around in a lot less time that would be needed using the OCU or MCU scale. That the TOS one manages to get to the edge of the galaxy, back to Vulcan, stop along the Romulan and Klingon boarders and end up back at Earth in under 5 years, while stopping off for an adventure each week is another example of Trecknology meeting the deamins of drama.


I'd consider using 1wf=1ly/day for "off-camera" travel times, but that's another topic.