Complete Equipment Index!!

[J T]

Check it out!
We've got Enriched Ultritium Artillery, Isomagnetic Disintegrators, T-3C Phaser Rifles, RPGs!
We've got Sovereign Classes!
We've got Energy Knives, and the Sharp Stick of Kahless!

This is JT. I just wanted to let everyone know that my Star Trek RPG website on Equipment, Replicators, and Economics is now finished. It’s got to every piece of personal equipment written up in the LUG books (including the unpublished but released work and Steve Long’s stuff).

It also covers devices detailed in the Magazine, Tech Manuals and some of the better-written fan reference books. Each piece of equipment has a replication cost (in Federation Credits), availability and legality (in the UFP) code and the book and page number on which detailed info/stats can be found. There’s also an analysis of the Economy of the UFP and some notes on the capabilities of Replicators.

It can be found at-
http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/costchart.html

Let me know what you think. Here’s what others had to say about JT’s new site-

"Everything you need to kill the Borg!"
-Captain Jean Luc Picard, USS Enterprise

"You are a sad bastard."
-Many people

"I mistook a preganglionic fiber for a postganglionic nerve during the orals or I would have been first."
-Doctor Julian Bashir


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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.

[qerlin]

I like your take on the UFP economy. I figure it to also have a big 'influence' or 'power' factor -- much like the old Soviet regimes -- for your credit allowance: a Federation councilman has access to 'dachas', and shuttlecraft, and has a lot more credits that the average person.

[J T]

Qerlin said:
“I like your take on the UFP economy. I figure it to also have a big 'influence' or 'power' factor -- much like the old Soviet regimes -- for your credit allowance: a Federation councilman has access to 'dachas', and shuttlecraft, and has a lot more credits that the average person.”

So Qerlin, how many credits do you think the president of the UFP have access to (for his personal use)? How about a Federation Councilman?


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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.

[Mig1]

You been on the east coast lately? I swear I saw a dude that looked just like you and a chick that looked just like her at Animazement last weekend.

[Protius]

And I'd swear I've seen that guy in the middle on some old 80s British sci-fi before.

[J T]

I haven’t been on the East Coast since the beginning of May. I’m not sure if my girlfriend has ever been on the East Coast. So no go there.

We have been known to stay up till 2:00 am watching old “Avenger” episodes though

Actualy I was hesitating to use that picture (I thought I’d put one of me in my Starfleet togs) but maybe I’ll keep it.



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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.

[CaptainGonzalez]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J T:
Qerlin said:
“I like your take on the UFP economy. I figure it to also have a big 'influence' or 'power' factor -- much like the old Soviet regimes -- for your credit allowance: a Federation councilman has access to 'dachas', and shuttlecraft, and has a lot more credits that the average person.”

</font>

Why? The beauty of the having an economy that has access to unlimited resources is that if someone needs it they can have it. Doesn't matter what your rank, prestige or influence. If you need a shuttlecraft you can get it. You may to have to ask the local planet bureaucrat but unless you are doing something illegal it shouldn't be a problem.

Communism failed in the Soviet Union because the needs of the people surpassed the availablity of resources. That is why the Old Guard would have fancy new limos and dachas while the commoners had to make do with bicycles and shacks.

The way the Federation has been described, people are above the petty greed of our society. Everyone works for the betterment of themselves first and society as a whole a very close second.

This selfless attitude may seem bizarre to us now but someone 300 years ago would have balked of a daily that didn't include pious worship and acceptance of "God's will" in every aspect of their life, from why the crops failed to why the king should rule. Now it seems silly and a little pathetic. Just like our 21st Century working for greater power and resources would seem foolish and sad to the typical person in the Federation.

[J T]

CaptainGonzalez said:
“The beauty of the having an economy that has access to unlimited resources is that if someone needs it they can have it. Doesn't matter what your rank, prestige or influence.”

In general I agree with you. A security guard makes 5,000 a week (from LUG), a Dabo girl makes at least 10,700 a week (from the DS9 TV series). For 5,000 you can by 1 ton of high resolution replicated goods. So in a year you’d be able to purchase 52 tons of materials – and that’s at High Resolution!

CaptainGonzalez said:
“If you need a shuttlecraft you can get it. You may to have to ask the local planet bureaucrat but unless you are doing something illegal it shouldn't be a problem.”

Actually you can’t BUY a shuttle very easily (According to Steve Long and myself they start around 200,000,000). He could how ever apply for a grant. This would requiring him to justify how why owning his own personal shuttle (as opposed to renting, chartering, or buy passage) will benefit society. This give solid rules and prices for things but lets the GM (aka The Grant Review Board) still have a lot of power.

To be honest I’m a closet fan of Capitalism but I’m trying not to let it affect my view of the Federation’s Economy.



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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.

[Robbert Raets]

I like the Federation economy. An Earth were poverty has been abolished? I'm a Utopian, so I like it very much. Unlike you, JT, I'm not to fond of capitalism, even though I qualify as a mass consumer

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'Who would have thought... A brave Ferengi!'
Gowron, to Quark, son of Keldar.

[JALU3]

That's interesting . . . the way I understood it was that even that nothing essential cost anything. I.E. cloths, food, housing, etc. Provided that, of course, that you worked and what you were doing we benifiting the society.

Do you all remember the episode where those people from the 20th century who were cyrogenicly frozen were found by the USS Enterprise-D? The way that Picard described it was that no one worked towards material persuits or towards "wealth" rather people worked for the greater good of society and for their own personnal enjoyment.

Furthermore, the way it is described only "luxary" goods cost Credits, and specially made goods. A good example is that you can replicate a cajun meal, however it does cost units to go eat @ Sisko's.

Anyone wanna comment on my statement

[J T]

JALU3 said
“. . . the way I understood it was that even that nothing essential cost anything. I.E. cloths, food, housing, etc. Provided that, of course, that you worked and what you were doing we benifiting the society.”

If you have to work to eat then the food “costs” something. It may not cost money but it does cost labor.

I assume that the UFP is so rich (and more importantly so automated) that even if you don’t work you get free food, housing, basic transportation, health care, and education. If you work you get “credits” which allow you to buy luxuries. For example let’s say you want to throw a party and invite 7000 people (it’s a really BIG party). You’ll need to feed them all. That’s were the work (or grants) comes in. You have enough replicator credits to feed your self 100 times over, but you need enough to feed yourself 7000 times over. Thus if you want your party you either have to get a job, apply for a grant (explaining how this party will benefit society) or make it a BYORC (Bring Your Own Replicator Credits) party!

JALU3 said
“The way that Picard described it was that no one worked towards material persuits or towards "wealth" rather people worked for the greater good of society and for their own personnal enjoyment.”

Exactly! The “New Humans” (as Gene Rodenberry describes them) are (for the most part) not interested in acquisition for acquisition’s sake. They work to better themselves.

JALU3 said
“Furthermore, the way it is described only "luxary" goods cost Credits, and specially made goods. A good example is that you can replicate a cajun meal, however it does cost units to go eat @ Sisko's.”

LUG’s Deep Space 9 Core RPG book page 26 gives the price for meals from the Replimat as being 5 credits. Obviously they do cost something. Now according to the DS9 TV series a dabo girl makes a minimum of 10,700 Federation Credits a week. This allows her to by over 2140 meals from the replicator. All items have a “cost” in credits but most items are so cheap as to be ALMOST free. Only luxury (ie non-replicatable) goods have prices high enough to worry about.



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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.

[Protius]

Dabo girls have expensive tastes. Forget meals, there's this necklace she's been after...

And just cuz society is poor-free doesn't mean you can buy 50,000 lincoln logs to do your own real-life model of shuttlecraft.

I like how the site presents it. You are alloted enough to live on, comfortably. To afford luxuries or hobbies would be beyond your budget and so some form of work is required.

You can expect many retire when they feel like it. And that's fine. Many set out in their youth to do something useful, and the promise of having a little set aside to purchase your own dream house on a moon somewhere is certainly worth earning for, even if you are only interested in doing what you like best.

And by splitting up credits into transportation and personal and construction credits is useful too. While I'm not sure every citizen requires construction credits (I'm still lulling over that one) the separation of transportation and personal credits can be seen as a tool by which the Federation Economic Administration stabilizes the economy. That sort of thing has a way of destabilizing very quickly, as many of the surrounding currencies have recently, and I can see how some form of credit separation has its uses.

and on the upside, even if you bum about Earth all your life, gardening to your hearts content, the fact that you never traveled to see Paris every years ensures you at least one trip to Risa every decade or two.

[Fortunae]

Are any of you familiar with the "War against the Cthorr" series of books? I bring them up because in that setting, the earthlings have had to move to an economy based on a "kilo-calorie". Basically, goods and services and what not are based on the "energy" required to make them, your job pays you in how much energy it takes you to do it. (40 man-hours = X kilo-calorie credits). For particularly hazardous duties Bonuses are offered (or bounties), and in fields where it took alot of time to get the expertise to do the job, an adjustment to how much your work is worth is made.

If it took you 8 years of education, and 4 years of internship to become a Medical Doctor for example, your "Kilo-Calorie per Hour" rate would be higher.

Okay, so going from all of that, you *could* arbitrarily make an index of how many credits a person would earn in a society like the Federation if they used a similar premise. Starfleet personnel in particular are basically considered to be "working" 24/7..Enlisted Personnel have a year of school, their duty is hazardous and/or greatly benefits the whole of society. Officers have 4 years (at least) of formal education. Promotion is usually based on a Merit/Ability system so with greater rank comes greater credits based on the presumption that more training and ability was needed to get the rank AND with the rank comes more difficult and critical duties that benefit all of society.

As an example, a Lieutenant who leads a Rapid Response team that regularly rescues Federation Citizens from hostile criminals or foreign power agents, and who has a pretty fair chance of *dying* on every mission, should get paid more than the clerk who processes all incoming data sent from the Vulcan Ambassador to the President of the Federation.

And, for goods, room to haggle comes into play as you question how many "work hours" this product really required to make, how much specialized training did it require, how useful is it really? An example here being Dilithium miners make alot of credits because Dilithium is *critical* to the economic and military health of the Federation, and it's a dirty dangerous job to mine it, transport it, etc.

Just a few thoughts.

Peace.

[Protius]

I don't think the purchase of a moon would be based on its cost of replication. Think of it more as a collected sum of property values plus whatever zoning permits you have to pay, yada yada. A guy who buys a farm doesn't have to pay through the teeth because to replicate 1000 acres of soil and vegetation it would need x amount...

[J T]

Protius said:
“And by splitting up credits into transportation and personal and construction credits is useful too. While I'm not sure every citizen requires construction credits (I'm still lulling over that one) the separation of transportation and personal credits can be seen as a tool by which the Federation Economic Administration stabilizes the economy.”

I’m assuming that the separation of all the different types of Credits is an Earth phenomenon and not a UFP phenomenon. According to LUG Vulcan does use a normal currency as do several other UFP races. However Jake Sisko says “I’m Human! I don’t need (have?) any money!” Ben Sisko also mentions using up all his Transporter Credits while he was living on Earth. The UFP Credit is accepted everywhere in the Federation but several planets (such a Vulcan, and Tellar) have their own currencies as well. Earth doesn’t have currency in the normal sense of the word. On Earth the value is spread out over Replicator / Transporter / Real Estate Credits. Thus Humans don’t have money but they can have Transporter Credits.

Protius said:
“and on the upside, even if you bum about Earth all your life, gardening to your hearts content, the fact that you never traveled to see Paris every years ensures you at least one trip to Risa every decade or two.”

Exactly!
Now if only we knew how many UFP Credits it takes buy passage to cross the sector….
The only data point I can find is in the episode “Little Green Men” where Quark sells his very badly damaged shuttle to pay for passage from Earth to DS9. If we knew how damaged it was then we might be able to make a guess about the cost of passage.

Fortunae said:
“Okay, so going from all of that, you *could* arbitrarily make an index of how many credits a person would earn in a society like the Federation if they used a similar premise. Starfleet personnel in particular are basically considered to be "working" 24/7…”

LUG TNG RPG Core game book explicitly states that Starfleet personnel are not paid. Any funds the have are from working on the side (playing the stock market?), gambling, or (most often) from shore leave grants. However this gets me thinking – Do Starfleet personal receive retirement pay? Or can they continue to request funds from Starfleet even after they retire? There MUST be some sort of retirement benefit. Any ideas as to what form it might take?

Protius said
“I don't think the purchase of a moon would be based on its cost of replication. Think of it more as a collected sum of property values plus whatever zoning permits you have to pay, yada yada. A guy who buys a farm doesn't have to pay through the teeth because to replicate 1000 acres of soil and vegetation it would need x amount...”

I agree absolutely!! The cost of a moon would be MUCH less then the cost to replicate a moon. I just haven’t seen any data for the cost of land in Star Trek. Well actually we know that a bajoran tessipate costs 143,000 credits but we have no real idea how big a tessipate is. Can anybody help with this?


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Just remember, even though it’s a vacuum,
In space no one can hear you Clean.
-J.T.